HomeMy WebLinkAboutParks and Recreation - 04/04/2005 APPROVED MINUTES
PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
MONDAY,APRIL 4, 2005 7:00 P.M., CITY CENTER
Council Chambers
8080 Mitchell Road
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: John Brill, Tom Bierman, Tom Crain, Jeffrey Gerst,
Ian Mackay and Geri Napuck
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Rob Barrett, Randy Jacobus and Michael Moriarity
COMMISSION STAFF PRESENT: Bob Lambert, Director of Parks and Recreation
Services; Laurie Obiazor, Manager of Recreation
Services and Carol Pelzel, Recording Secretary
STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES: Cole Johnson
I. CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL
The meeting was called to order by Vice-Chair Gerst at 7:05 p.m.
Lambert introduced new Commission member Geri Napuck who was appointed to the
Commission for a term expiring March, 2008.
Bierman thanked City staff for all of the information they provided the Commission with regards
to the proposed referendum.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Motion: Brill moved, seconded by Bierman, to approve the agenda as presented. The motion
carried, 6-0.
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES —March 7, 2005
Motion: Bierman moved, seconded by Mackay, to approve the minutes of the March 7 joint
meeting of the Eden Prairie City Council and Parks Commission as published. The motion
carried, 5-0-1, with Napuck abstaining because she was not in attendance at that meeting.
Motion: Brill moved, seconded by Crain, to approve the minutes of the March 7 Parks
Commission meeting as presented. The motion carried, 5-0-1, with Napuck abstaining because
she was not in attendance at that meeting.
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IV. REPORT OF CITY COUNCIL ACTION—March 15, 2005
Lambert reported that the City Council awarded bids for playground construction at Edenvale
and Overlook Parks as the Commission had recommended. The Council appointed Geri Napuck
to the Commission and reappointed Barrett as Chair and Gerst as Vice-Chair.
V. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATION
A. REQUEST FROM THE EDEN PRAIRIE HOCKEY ASSOCIATION
Lambert reported that staff received a request from the Eden Prairie Hockey Association
asking them to look at the possibility of moving or removing the bleachers in the northwest
corner of Rink II at the Community Center to allow space for installation of a practice
shooting area at this location. Staff does have a number of questions regarding this request
and they are asking the Commission for authorization to meet with the Association to
evaluate their request. Lambert said staff wants to be sure this is something the City's
building staff would approve and that fire exits are not blocked. They also need to
determine how and when it would be used and if it would be used in conjunction with
renting ice time. Staff would come back to the Commission in May with a recommendation
and with more specific information.
In response to a question from Mackay, Lambert explained that this is the only location to
consider this practice area because everything else is rather tight. Lambert explained that
the participants would not be on skates and would not take up ice time. This use is similar
to kick board for soccer. Crain asked if this is standard at most rinks. Lambert explained
that it is not standard but more and more hockey associations are renting time from private
organizations for dry land training, or developing their own dry land training areas.
Motion: Brill moved, seconded by Mackay, to authorize staff to meet with the
representative from the Eden Prairie Hockey Association to evaluate the request to provide
a practice shooting area in the northwest corner of the Olympic rink at Eden Prairie
Community Center. Bierman said he would like to see the words "dry land" added after the
word practice. Brill and Mackay had no objection to the friendly amendment. The motion
carried as amended, 6-0.
VI. OLD BUSINESS
VII. NEW BUSINESS
A. APPROVE UPDATED CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLAN
Lambert explained that the Capital Improvement Plan (CIP) is a guide for the City Council
and Commission. All of the projects listed beyond this year and even some of this year's
projects do not have plans and specifications, therefore, the estimated costs are only
guesstimates based on history as to costs and revenue. The costs may vary greatly. Lambert
further explained that there are limitations on what park dedication funds may be used for.
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The CIP also shows some of the future projects and if a referendum is passed, some of
those projects will change in priority. The first two years of the Plan is pretty accurate.
Lambert said staff is asking the Commission to approve the concept of these projects. They
are not approving any one expenditure, but they are approving the proposals for 2005.
Motion: Crain moved, Bierman seconded, to approve the updated Capital Improvement
Plan as a concept approval for expenditures of anticipated revenue over the next five years.
Brill asked where the projects for updating playground equipment are listed. Lambert
explained that those projects come out of the City's General Fund. The General Fund has
been paying about$55,000 a year for playground replacement and $125,000 a year for trail
replacement. Vote was called on the motion with all members present voting aye. The
motion carried, 6-0.
B. APPROVE TRAIL PROJECTS FOR 2005
Lambert explained that Councilmember Aho indicated that he was not comfortable with
making recommendations for a referendum without seeing the whole picture. Lambert said
they need to take a look at the Park Fund, General Fund, trail projects and all of the current
projects they are planning for their funding resources. Lambert stated that the list of trail
projects is an extensive list and difficult to evaluate. Therefore, staff has broken the trail
projects into different categories including new transportation trails, repair or replace
existing transportation trails, new park trails and repair existing park trails. Lambert
explained that they also have a category for soft surface trails. The City has approximately
four or five miles of soft trails in the park system with 10 to 15 miles planned for the
future. These trails are relatively inexpensive to construct and to maintain unless a lot of
bridges or retaining walls are required. The soft trails are planned for the creek valleys.
Lambert said the City's trail maintenance staff provides a condition report and assigns a
safety evaluation. Based on that criteria, staff has listed the ten projects for this year.
Money is budgeted for these trails at this time. Approximately $125,000 is carried forward
year to year and they currently have approximately $300,000 for trails in the budget right
now.
Napuck pointed out that a petition had been received from Homeward Hills' residents
asking that their trail reconstruction be moved up in priority. She asked where this project
is at this time. Lambert responded that it is scheduled for 2006. The petition was received
last year after this Commission took action on the trail projects. This project will cost
approximately $300,000. If they did the Homeward Hills trail at this time they would not
be able to do any other trail projects. Lambert said he feels this project is a good project for
the referendum list. Napuck asked if the trails are evaluated on an annual basis and as a
result of those evaluations, could the projects be moved up in priority. Lambert responded
that the projects' priority could be changed as a result of those evaluations.
Crain asked if the Technology Drive transportation trail proposed for construction by the
developer includes any attachments. Lambert responded that an estimated cost was not
included on the list for this project because of proposed development in this area. The
developer will make the connection from the end of the trail by Costco east to Lake
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Idlewild Trail. Staff has recommended acquisition of Rosemount Park. If that is acquired,
they will be able to make a connection all of the way around the lake.
Mackay asked if trails north of Mitchell Lake are included on the list. He said he feels
these trails need repair. Lambert said they are not. There are other trails that may need to be
repaired, especially those around the marsh.
Crain asked how staff decides when a trail is paved. Lambert explained that it is based on
traffic volume and the character of the trail.
Motion: Gerst moved, Mackay seconded, to approve the proposed schedule of trail
projects identified for 2005 as listed in the April 4 memo to the Parks, Recreation and
Natural Resources Commission. The motion carried, 6-0.
C. FULL ACCESS TO PURGATORY CREEK RECREATION AREA
Lambert explained that staff is asking for approval to begin the process for construction of
full vehicle access to the Purgatory Creek Recreation Area. This project is one of the items
listed on the recommended list for 2005 trail projects the Commission approved in the
previous item. Lambert further explained that due to the soil conditions at the Purgatory
Creek Recreation Area, a temporary right-in/right-out access was developed with the first
phase development of that area. Soils engineers have indicated that full access may be
developed at any time.
Motion: Bierman moved, seconded by Crain, to recommend authorization to prepare plans,
specifications and bids for construction of full vehicle access to the Purgatory Creek
Recreation Area. The motion carried, 6-0.
D. SKATE PARK EXPANSION AT ROUND LAKE PARK
Lambert reported that the 2005 Capital Improvement Program for the Parks and Recreation
Department includes the installation of approximately $35,000 of additional skate park
equipment to the Round Lake Park facility. This information is being provided to the
Commission for informational purposes only and the Commission does not need to take
any formal action. Lambert explained that staff did send invitations to students at Oak
Point, CMS and the High School to provide input on the expansion of the skate park. They
did receive some good input and have sent out request for proposals for the project. Bids
will be presented to the Commission at the May meeting.
VIII. REPORTS OF STAFF
A. DIRECTOR OF PARKS AND RECREATION
1. Referendum Considerations
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Lambert explained that this is the second step of the process to consider whether or not
a referendum should be held and if so, how it should be done. The various categories
for the referendum have been broken into four parts. The first is Community Center
Improvements. Pool options would be considered only with a Community Center
expansion. The other categories are Park Acquisition and Improvements, and Trail
Construction.
Lambert reviewed with the Commission the Community Center Improvements that
would be funded by a referendum. The proposed cost for those improvements would be
$6,950,000. Additional improvements including the play space, third rink option and
outdoor fun pool are proposed to be funded by Revenue Bonds and Hockey Association
donations. Lambert explained that staff has talked about changing the operation of the
Community Center to an Enterprise Fund, which means it would be operated like a
business and would have to pay for its own operation.
Lambert indicated that the proposed outdoor rink has been moved to the north side of
the building. It was originally planned for the west side, which required removing the
High School parking lot. The Hockey Association has raised approximately $250,000
and they believe they can raise an additional $250,000. The total project cost is
approximately $2 million. This would be an outdoor rink with a shed roof and a chain
link fence around the rink. It could be a concrete base rink and used for something else
in the summer. Footings will be put in so that walls could be put up when additional
money is raised. If revenue bonds are used to fund a portion of this project, the amount
of revenue generated to pay off these bonds will depend on what the Hockey
Association agrees to pay for ice time. If a referendum for this project is passed, it may
not happen until they receive funding from the Hockey Association.
Lambert explained that in Community Center Proposal A they are proposing a wading
pool similar to what the City of Edina added to their pool. This improvement to the
facility in Edina generated enough revenue to cover the construction costs and the
operating costs as well as putting away a sufficient amount of excess revenue to pay for
other pool improvements. Lambert said their wading pool would be connected to the
indoor pool. Staff would want a pool consultant to tell them what the design should be
in order to generate sufficient revenue. Lambert said they must consider whether or not
they want a competitive pool or a recreational pool. If they deepen the pool it becomes
a better competitive pool but a much less desirable recreational pool. In response to a
question from Gerst, Lambert explained that the fun pool couldn't happen if the
Community Center improvements do not occur. The third rink could possibly go with
or without a referendum.
Bierman asked what role the community plays in approving revenue bonds. Lambert
said the City does not require taxpayer approval to issue revenue bonds. Staff will
provide residents with information on what they are voting on. Bierman said as the
information is presented this evening, it is very confusing. He suggested that a sheet be
prepared informing the voters of what they are voting on and another sheet showing
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what other projects they are proposing to do. Lambert said they need to let the residents
know that if the referendum is passed the City, at no cost to the taxpayer, could add
other projects. Bierman said that they need to make it very clear as to what the residents
are voting for on the referendum. He stated that they need to keep it as simple a
referendum as possible.
Lambert explained that Plan B for swimming pool improvements was developed with
representatives from the Foxjets, Aquajets and School District. This option is similar to
Plan A with the addition of a zero depth warm water recreational pool that would also
have two water slides. Lambert said they would need to decide if they are going to
make this a recreational or competitive pool. Residents have said they want a
recreational pool in Eden Prairie but staff is not sure they are willing to pay for it. The
swimming pool should be a separate question and their best chance of getting
improvements to the Community Center is to also have that as a separate question.
Napuck asked if staff feels an indoor pool would be able to recoup its operating costs.
Lambert said it would not. Indoor pools do not pay for themselves. They do,however,
feel that the Community Center revenues would increase by increased membership.
They are confident that the net cost of the Community Center would not change much
with the other additions but it would change if a pool were added because of the high
cost for running an indoor pool.
Brill asked if staff has talked to other communities who have indoor pools regarding
costs and revenue. Lambert said they have and the pool operators have indicated that it
is not a moneymaker. People who use the pool enjoy it and the heaviest use is during
the first year. Features are added to the pool every couple of years to keep up the
interest in using the pool.
Brill said with regard to Plan B, it is his opinion that that may end up being the
sacrificial lamb of a three-part question. It may be defeated but at least it will be
separate from the rest of the questions.
Mackay asked if Oak Point Pool could be renovated or customized to make it more
useful for competitive swimming. Lambert said they discussed making the existing
pool recreational and converting Oak Point pool to competitive. The School District
would have to convert the water slide pool to a diving well. They might not want to do
that for an intermediate school. There is also not enough space to make the Oak Point
pool a recreational pool. Lambert also questioned making the City's recreational pool at
a school where the public would have limited access to it.
Lambert reviewed with the Commission Plan B, which is similar to the Plan A
improvements to the Community Center,plus Plan C with the additional warm water
zero-depth recreational pool with the water slide and the expansion of the existing six—
lanes from 25-meters to 50-meters with a bulkhead to accommodate 25-yard events and
additional spectator seating.
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Napuck asked if Plan A deals with the Community Center and with the deepening of
the pool, which is something competitive swimmers want. Lambert said that was
correct. Staff is trying to develop a plan that will make the pool pay its own way.
Mackay asked if they could expand the recreational program at Oak Point Pool.
Lambert responded that the City uses it now the maximum amount of time that it is
available. If they were to expand their program, it would have to be during the school
day.
Gerst asked if Plan B allows for more time available for swimming lessons. Lambert
said it would. Plan B activity pool would have about 88 degree water and they would
have preschool age swimming programs in that pool. Gerst said Plan A assumes the
deepening of the pool. He suggested that they eliminate that from Plan A but keep it in
Plans B and C.
Bierman said it is important to inform the voters that what is being proposed for the
referendum is much less than what was voted on last year.
Gerst said he was leaning towards Option B. Option C is nice if money were no object.
Option B would still deepen the pool and the competitive swimming issues would be
addressed and they would also have a recreational pool.
Crain asked what the cost difference would be for each plan per resident or per
homeowner. Lambert responded that Plan B would cost the average homeowner$34 a
year and Plan C would cost$38 per year.
Gerst said he is not convinced that Option B would pass but he is comfortable with
putting it forward as an option. He would like to see the deepening of the pool removed
from Option A and moved to Option B. Gerst said he feels that Option A is really more
of a need while Options B and C are more of a plus.
Brill said he is concerned about putting pool improvements on a referendum. He feels
they are risking that question and other questions. Lambert explained that 51 percent of
the residents said the City should be providing recreational opportunities for swimming
other than lakes. Lambert said he thinks they have to give the residents the opportunity
to vote on a pool.
Mackay said he agrees that Option B is a good option to discuss. He said he personally
does not feel comfortable with recommending anything to the City Council without
spending more time discussing these options with the community. Mackay said he
thinks that a forum or several small forums should be held to present these ideas to the
public prior to a referendum to get some feeling from the people who would be using
these facilities. These residents would indicate whether or not they would support a
referendum and that they understand the recommendations. After those meetings are
held, they would go back to the City Council and tell them that this is what we
recommend and what we could support. Lambert said he agrees, but this group has to
scale back the options they talk to the public about. The Commission has to decide
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whether or not Option B is the option to present to the community. They have to have a
concept plan. Lambert indicated that timing is very important and they don't have a lot
of time to do public meetings. It is a good idea to have a town meeting on a
referendum. Mackay said he feels they need a couple forums; one for the general public
and one for users.
Gerst said he is comfortable with moving forward with Options A and B combo with
eliminating the pool deepening option from Option A and adding it to Option B.
Motion: Motion was made by Mackay, seconded by Gerst, to recommend that pool
deepening be eliminated from Option A Community Center Improvements and added
to Option B for Swimming Pool Improvements and that the Commission recommend
the Option A Community Center Improvements and Option B for discussion with the
public and City Council.
Lambert said the public meeting should be to discuss the swimming pool improvements
and not the improvements proposed to the Community Center. Mackay said he thinks
the real question is whether or not they should have a referendum. He said he is hoping
that they will get the reinforcement they need for a referendum from these public
hearings. Lambert said they need to have a focused question or questions for the public
to discuss. Mackay said he feels they should lay out their plan and let the public react to
it. Crain said if any item looks extravagant, that is what needs to be discussed at the
public meetings. Bierman said his concern is that they may have very few people attend
these public meetings to express their opinions. He asked about the other thousands of
residents and their opinion. Bierman pointed out that they already have had one survey
and process. Bierman said he feels they have to move forward without a public
meeting.
Gerst said he is in favor of a public meeting but discussion should be focused on
Options A and B. He said he did not feel a few people showing up at these meetings
would affect his decision or anyone else's. They are still looking at what is best for
Eden Prairie but maybe one of those people will have a point of view or thought that
would help the process. He suggested they take that information and move forward
from there. It is this Commission's responsibility to move forward and investigate the
referendum.
Vote was called on the motion with all members present voting aye except Bierman
who voted nay. The motion carried, 5-1.
Lambert reviewed with the Commission the referendum proposal for Park Acquisition
and Improvements. He indicated Staff is asking for authorization to send notices to
residents within the service areas of Forest Hills Park, Edenvale Park and Prairie View
Park to obtain input from neighborhoods regarding the proposed changes prior to
making any decisions on park acquisition or improvements for a referendum. Lambert
said they should discuss the acquisition of Rosemount Park. The City is doing a major
center area study and they are discussing creating a focus for a downtown and there is a
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park and lake right there. The park would have to be purchased. All indications of
earlier studies are that it is critical to create unique spaces in downtown areas.
Rosemount may or may not want to sell the park. Lambert asked if the Commission
would be in favor of staff talking to Rosemount regarding acquisition of this park and
whether or not it should be put on the referendum. He also asked for the Commission's
recommendation on whether or not they should talk to the Roger's family regarding
acquisition of Birch Island Woods.
Mackay said he feels it is time they do the work and research on Idlewild Park and to
get a response from the Roger's family. Lambert said in looking at the timing, it would
be nice to have the preliminary work completed by the May meeting. Lambert said staff
would also talk to the City's bond attorney regarding the use of revenue bonds. They
also need to talk to the School District about the proposed improvements. Lambert said
they would need to talk to the affected neighbors about these concepts before they talk
to the general public so that they have a definitive plan.
Bierman suggested that City staff talk to the Rosemount Company to see if they would
be willing to donate the parkland to the City. Brill said he feels they were pretty vague
on the last referendum for park acquisition. He felt they were not specific enough on
what the money was going towards. Brill asked how this referendum would be different
from the last one. Lambert responded that previously they talked about fixing up
existing parks and making playground improvements. This is something that they need
to think about doing with this referendum. Some of the money should be used to do
some improvements to neighborhood parks and with this proposal they are looking at
specific projects. Brill pointed out that most of the proposed improvements are north of
Highway 5. He suggested that they consider including some playground improvements
in other parts of the City. Lambert pointed out that these parks were all built first and
the parks south of Highway 5 are newer. Mackay said he agrees that some
improvement funds should be added to this list for consideration.
Napuck asked if they intend to actually list specific park acquisition and improvements
on the referendum. Lambert responded that the question on the referendum would be do
you vote yes or no for park acquisition development. The information that is dispersed
throughout the community prior to the referendum will be more specific. Crain said it is
important that they remind the residents that if the referendum is passed,park
improvements could be made within one or two years rather than five or six years.
Motion: Motion was made by Brill, seconded by Mackay, to request staff to provide
this information to the Mayor and City Council and recommend the Council direct staff
to contact representatives of the School District to review options to be considered at
Forest Hills Park and Prairie View Park and to send notices to residents within the
service areas of Forest Hills Park, Edenvale Park, and Prairie View Park to obtain input
from neighborhoods regarding proposed changes to their neighborhood park prior to
making any decisions on park acquisition or improvements for a referendum. The
motion carried, 6-0.
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Motion: Motion was made by Mackay, seconded by Brill, to ask City staff to
investigate funds for general park upgrades and to bring back to this Commission a
ballpark figure to potentially add to a referendum. The motion carried, 6-0.
Lambert briefly reviewed possible trail improvement projects. He explained that if the
City had an additional $2 million they could do a large number of projects and may
possibly even complete the trail projects.
Motion: Motion was made by Gerst, seconded by Mackay, to recommend $2 million
for trail improvement projects to be considered as a separate question for a referendum.
Brill asked if the request for trail funding would be a separate question on the
referendum. He suggested that they not have too many questions and they do not want
just one question. He suggested that they consider combining park acquisition and
funding for trails as one question. Lambert said the number of questions to be placed on
the referendum would be decided at a later date.
Vote was called on the motion with all members present voting aye. The motion
carried, 6-0.
2. Sports Facilities Committee Update
Lambert reported that the Sports Facilities Committee met on March 16. They are still
working on updating the Priority Use Policy and are reviewing the actual participant
numbers of the Associations to verify what percentage of participants are Eden Prairie
residents.
3. Status Report on the Creek Valley Trails Planning Process
Lambert provided an update on the initial meeting with the Trail Planning Committee
made up of citizens living within 1000-feet of Edenbrook Conservation. Area, Riley
Creek Conservation Area and the Lower Purgatory Creek Conservation Area.
B. MANAGER OF RECREATION
C. MANAGER OF PARKS AND NATURAL RESOURCES
IX. ADJOURNMENT
Motion: Brill moved, Napuck seconded, to adjourn the meeting. The motion carried 6-0. The
meeting was adjourned at 9:50 p.m.