HomeMy WebLinkAboutCity Council - 08/17/1982 - Joint Meeting APPROVED MINUTES
JOINT CITY COUNCIL/PLANNING COMMISSION
TUESDAY, AUGUST 17, 1982 6:00 PM, CITY HALL
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COUNCIL MEMBERS: Mayor Wolfgang H. Penzel , George Bentley, Dean
Edstrom, Paul Redpath and George Tangen
PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBERS: Chairman William Bearman, Virginia Gartner, Bob {
Hallett, Dennis Marhula , Elizabeth Retterath ,
Grant Sutliff and Hakon Torjesen
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PLANNING COMMISSION/CITY COUNCIL STAFF: City,Hanager Carl J. Jullie, Planning Director
Chri : Enger, Director of Public Works Euguene
A. Dietz, Director of Community Services Bob
Lambert, City Attorney Roger Pauly, and Recording
Secretary Karen Michael
ROLL CALL: all were present
I . APPROVAL OF AGENDA AND OTHER ITEMS OF BUSINESS
MOTION: Bentley moved, seconded by Penzel , to approve the Agenda as published.
Motion carried unaninjously.
II . COMPREHENSIVE GUIDE PLAN - a blueprint for "planned growth"
A. NEED FOR GROWTH
B. PLAN FOR GROWTH
1 . Street System
2. Land Uses
a. Balance between open space, housing and business
b. Balance of housing roe and opportuni t
Penzel noted the above had been presented as a stimulus for thought and would
not necessarily be discussed in order given. He said the reason for the Joint
Meeting between the Planning Commission and the City Council was because the
Mayor and City Council felt there was the appearance that the two bodies were
drifting apart. It was felt there was a need for communication on the City's
position as to the policies under which it operates and the precepts under
which it works. Penzel stated he had discussed the mode of operation of the
Planning Commission with Chairman Bearman in light of concerns which had been
raised by residents. Penzel said he had asked the City Attorney to make available
a City Attorney to sit in on Planning Commission Meetings for the next few months
to provide the necessary expertise on rules of procedure: if the Planning Commis-
sion members so request.
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Joint Meeting: Council /Planning -2- August 17, 1982
Bearman said the Planning Commission noted neighborhood problems and concerns
are different from area to area and some times do not match community goals .
Penzel said he believed this to be self interest on the part of a few rather s
than the broader interest of the neighborhood. At times the neighborhood's
general interest was not represented at all .
Bearman said the City must develop a transportation plan for the community.
Bentley stated the issue at the moment is that of connecting neighborhoods.
He said he sees the Planning Commission as a scientific body which, based
on scientific criteria such as the City' s Ordinances and the Guide Plan
objectives, reviews a proposal and makes recommendations based on that criteria
staying out of the political realm (i .e. responding to the needs of a par-
ticular group.) Bearman said he would tend to agree with that assessment with
the addition of a couple of items : the Planning Commission interprets those
criteria and, because of the broad base of the Commission, varying views are
expressed in interpreting those criteria. Torjesen said the Planning Commis-
sion does not always have guidelines as to how to interpret what comes before
it, The Commission has to be more than scientific -- it is made up of honest
citizens who call it the way they see it. Gartner said if a Public Hearing
is called for then the citizens should be listened to and heard.
Penzel reviewed some of the confusion which was expressed by the Council
and which resulted in the necessity for this meeting. Penzel stated the
minutes reflect what happened at the meeting. Torjesen said the Commission
must pay more attention to the minutes . He noted that Commission members
pride themselves on the ability to have others change their minds. This at
times creates some confusion or adds to it.
Sutliff said proponents should be requested to show more than just the area
they are dealing with so the Commission would have a better idea as to what
the effect will be on surrounding properties. Edstrom said he would advocate
that. Tangen said City Staff should be responsible for this ; Staff should
cooperate with the developer to do this.
Sutliff noted a recent problem he had where he needed assistance from Public
Safety. Public Safety was "locked up" in a neighborhood and the response time
was longer than it might have been had neighborhoods been connected.
Retterath said she felt the developer had an obligation to furnish the Commission
with the information he had regarding the surrounding area -- he may have more
information at that point than the City has.
Marhula said there are two methods of review used by the Commission: one is
from a city planning standpoint and the other from a site planning standpoint.
It was Marhula's feeling that there was a tendency for the Planning Commission
to look at it more from a site planning standpoint and it should be looked at
more from a city planning standpoint.
Hallett noted the problems in dealing with adjoining proposals when they are
not addressed jointly or related to each other.
�y Redpa th said the consequences of the actions should be explained by Staff to
the City Council and the Planning Commission (i .e. the impact on sewer and-water
• facilities and the plans which were made for this and other public facilities , )
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Joint Meeting: Council/Planning -3- August 17, 1982
Penzel said regarding the "Need for Growth" , whether we personally think it
(� is a desirable thing or not, all of the financing presently in place for public
utilities (i .e. sewer and water) was premised on substantial continued growth
until at least the year 2000. Gartner said then the City should only look at
developers who are not asking for additional sewer and water facilities. She
said she had been told by Staff that there is no need for forced growth.
Redpath asked if there was any way to find out the impact in the reduction
of the number of units in The Preserve. City Manager Jullie said assessment
rates were projected on a connection rate of 400 - 600 units per year. Up to
this point the City has done very well . Jullie said the concern now is the
type of housing which is being built -- there is less single-family and more
multiple-family housing. Torjesen asked if projections might be available
as to the costs of paying for sewer and water facilities -- i .e. if growth
is less than projected , and more than projected , what would it do to the tax
bills? The implications of growth should be addressed.
Redpath suggested a seminar for Commissions and the Council at which time basic
questions might be answered.
Tangen noted the Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission had not
seen the projects until they had been seen by the Planninq Commission this had not always been the case, but in several instances the Parks, Recre-
ation & Natural Resources Commission has had a positive impact on what has
ultimately been proposed. He suggested perhaps the Planning Commission and
the Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission hear major proposals at
the same time. He felt the Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission
should see the proposals earlier on in the process -- the night before a Coun-
cil meeting is sometimes too late because it precludes any interchange between
Commissions before the proposal comes to the Council . Director of Planning
Enger said the procedure was requested by the Parks , Recreation & Natural
Resources Commission because changes were often requested by the Planning
Commission and these were then reflected in the proposal brought before the
Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission.
Bearman said more proposals are being presented which need a great deal of
review -- the Commission can get hung up on any one issue from PUD to rezoning.
He wonders if Staff even has enough time to adequately review these proposals
because during the past year or two there have been so many. Torjesen said
he has commented from time to time that certain proposals should not have come
before the Commission but that Staff, he felt, had been pressured into bringing
them.
Penzel requested Finance Director Frane to prepare a report on the concerns
raised this evening. He said City Manager Jullie had asked Jim Clark from
the Public Safety Department and Phil Mathiowetz, Fire Marshal , to discuss
public safety access between neighborhoods and the need for connections between
neighborhoods.
Jim Clark said it is very frustrating to be within view of a place to which a
call is to be made and yet have to drive- five miles to get there. He said a
life might be saved if connections were to be made between neighborhoods .
Phil Mathiowetz said it is hard to figure out addresses at 3 a.m. Cul-de-sacs
present a problem just due to their length in some cases . Single access to a
neighborhood is bad -- it is difficult to get equipment in and out, A single i
access which is blocked by one type of emergency vehicle or emergency can
delay or preclude accessibility to another emergency.
Joint Meeting: Council /Planning -4- August 17 , 1982
Enger said a consensus on minor roads should be developed . There are over
( 400 cul-de-sacs in the City and the Public Works Department would like to
see restrictions on further development because they are hard to maintain.
Enger said he had discussed the response time situation with Director of
Public Safety Hacking who told him the response time is low now because
police officers take police cars home with them and respond to emergency
calls during off-duty hours. Access into and out of an area is crucial from
a life/safety standpoint.
Torjesen said he felt people like to live on cul-de-sacs ; in nice, little ,
small neighborhoods . He felt it was the job of the Planning Commission to
provide these for the residents.
Hallett noted the dialogue tonight had been helpful to him as a relatively
new member of the Planning Commission.
Retterath felt that the good of the City is not as important as the views
of the people. She thought the best interests of the City should be the
concern of the City Council .
Tangen said while he lives on a cul-de-sac he can see a real need for two
ways in and out of a neighborhood and interconnections between neighborhoods.
Tangen said he would like to make a recommendation to the Planning Commission
expressing the Council ' s desire to have neighborhoods connected by road systems .
Bearman said there were lots of people in Eden Prairie who thought this was
going to be a bedroom community without a lot of industrial and commercial
development. He thought it might be a good idea to clarify that.
III . PLANNING COMMISSION' S ROLE, CITY COUNCIL' S ROLE
Bentley said we should be aiming at long-range goals . He does not think the
Planning Cornmission`or the City Council should redesign the developer' s plans
for an area; minor modifications could be made during meetings , but anything
major should be redone by the developer and presented at another time.
Edstrom felt the relationship between the Council and the Planning Commission
during his term on the Council has been very good.
IV. BALANCING THE NEEDS AND DESIRES OF A NEIGHBORHOOD AGAINST OVERALL COMMUNITY
NEEDS AND DESIRES
Bearman noted that six or seven issues were raised during the codification
process which the Planning Commission would like to address. Tangen said he .
thought these would be looked at once the process is completed. City Attorney
Pauly noted there have been few substantive changes in the zoning ordinance
since he has been City Attorney; it might be valuable to reexamine portions
of the ordinance in the near future.
Bentley asked that another Joint Meeting of the Planning Commission and City
Council be held soon.
V. ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 7:25 p.m.