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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCity Council - 09/17/2002 - Workshop APPROVED MINUTES UTES EDEN PRAIRTF CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP/FORUAI TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 17,2002 CITY CENTER 5:00- 6:25 PM,HERITAGE ROOM H 6:30—7:00 PM, COUNCIL CHAMBER CITY COUNCIL: Mayor Nancy Tyra-Lukens, Councilmembers Sherry Butcher,Ron Case,David Luse and Jan Mosman CITY STAFF: City Manager Scott Neal,Public Safety Director Jim Clark, City Attorney Ric Rosow, and Recorder Lorene McWaters Heritage Room H I. CALL MEETING TO ORDER Mayor Tyra-Lukens called the meeting to order at 5:30 p.m. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA III. PROPOSED SMOKING ORDINANCE Mayor Tyra-Lukens reviewed the history of the second-hand smoke ordinance discussion. She said Council discussion began at the April 16 Council Meeting when a citizen's group, Clean Air on the Prairie,presented a petition containing more than a thousand signatures calling for restrictions on second-hand smoke. Mayor Tyra-Lukens said this was the first time in her eight years on the Council she had received a petition with so many signatures. The closest she could recall contained 200 signatures, at most. In light of the petition, she said the Council felt a duty to address the issue. She is distressed by those who suggest the Council should never have addressed the issue of regulating second hand smoke to begin with. Tyra-Lukens expressed her admiration for the entire Council for having the courage to take on this issue. She thanked the Council for their hard work and commitment to openness of process. She said the Council has held special meetings,received numerous e-mails, letters, and phone calls on the topic. She feels the thoughts of each Councilmember have gone through an evolution, and it is time to move forward. Mayor Tyra-Lukens suggested they start the discussion by reviewing the portions of the hypothetical ordinance on which there seems to be consensus. She asked whether the others agreed that they were talking about regulating indoor air quality only. Luse said that even the American Cancer Society's data does not indicate there are negative effects of second-hand smote outdoors, so he would like to stick to discussing indoor settings. Tyra-Lukens asked if that would include outdoor eating spaces. Co:zTcil Y'Frrra Soplen-Fzr 17,2052 Councilmember Butcher said she would life to review some definitions before proceeding. She asked Roso.v for clarification on.what is considered a"public place." Rosow said his definition of"public"was based on that concepts set forth in the Minnesota Clean Indoor Air Act.Under this definition anyplace the public is"in.vited into"is considered public. Butcher said she considers a"public place"to mean that which is owned by everyone, i.e., land and buildings owned by the City or other governmental entity. Councilmember Case said he liked Butcher's distinction. Councilmember Luse asked the other Councilmembers to remember that he is just the messenger,but that they must be very careful about what they are proposing—so would they ban smoking on highways, too, since they are technically public property? Case said he believed they were talking only about indoor air quality. Butcher said they may want to include places like outdoor park pavilions and amphitheatres. Tyra-Lukens asked if smoking out of doors at factories, offices, etc.,would be allowed. All agreed that smoking outside of buildings and in vehicles would be acceptable. Tyra-Lukens asked if the Councihnembers supported the 75%non-smoking/25% smoking ratio for hotel rooms called for in the hypothetical ordinance. She noted this is pretty much already the business standard. Case said he thinks it is worthwhile for the Council to codify what is already common practice,to send a message about what they are trying to do. Butcher said she is not comfortable regulating what hotels do in relation to smoking. She would rather offer a set of guidelines,under which compliance would be voluntary. She said enforcement of regulations would be very difficult, and she thinks the marketplace should drive what hotels do,not the government. Case said that although he thinks smoking regulation should be taken care of at the state level,passing an ordinance at the City-level will help move the State in this direction. City Attorney Rosow said that it is not appropriate to include guidelines in an ordinance. The Council could include regulations in an ordinance and pass an accompanying resolution that would list guidelines. Case said the Council may want to consider forming a task force to draw up guidelines and facilitate implementation. Rosow said the term"private vehicles" should be clarified. Would a truck owned by a conglomeration and driven by an employee be considered private or public? Tyra- Lukens said she would consider these exempt. Luse suggested making it as simple as possible—regulation should not apply to vehicles unless they are inside a building(i.e., in a garage.) Rosow said he would strike the word"private." Tyra-Lukens said it seems that most companies are already limiting smoking to outside areas or rooms with separate HVAC systems. Butcher asked Rosow for a quick overview of the Minnesota Clean Indoor Air Act. Rosow said the act prohibits smoking inside buildings except in designated areas. The designated areas are set by the proprietor and are required only to use existing barriers. Case said he has heard from hundreds of people,most of whom say they want to get away from second-hand smoke. However, they are asking that the Council not take any action that will hurt business. Case said his goal is to increase indoor air quality without harmin4 businesses. He said he spoke to a doctor at Abbott Northv.,estern Hospital. The .21.oir`.T�.'L'c'T 17. 0062 doctor indicated there are so many people smoking outside the hospital entrances,he feels it would be better to provide a separate room for them. Then others would not have to endure the second-hand smoke to get in the doors. Case said he could support an ordinance that would provide for indoor smoking areas as long as they have separate HVAC systems. He reiterated that he felt the Council's mandate was to craft a symbolic ordinance with as much substance as the people of Eden Prairie want. Butcher said maybe a guideline is more in line with what residents want—a one-size-fits-all ordinance may not be productive. Councilmember Luse said he's had more than 4,000 e-mails, letters and phone calls on the proposed smoking ordinance. He says he believes he has been consistent in his commentary on'having difficulty with the issue because there is no clear consensus. He said he believes he was illegally lobbied by Isis Stark in the study of his home on April 12, 2002. Luse asked how the Council proposes to go to the residents with an ordinance that is crystal clear when the conversation has come down to what will be legal versus what will be suggested. He said he does not see a decisive conclusion. Beyond a lack of resources to police an ordinance, Luse asked how the Council expects to go to the community with a modified smoking ban when they were told in April that the facts warrant a 100%ban. Tyra-Lukens said she would like to pull the Council back to the issue at hand. Luse asked how the Council proposes to police what is currently legal (smoking) in private buildings. He said he was told by the same people who illegally had lobbied him that HVAC systems do not do enough to protect others from second-hand smoke. Tyra- Lukens asked if Luse was proposing to ban smoking from all indoor areas. Luse said he was just cautioning the Council to be very clear, and take the time to really define things. Mosman said that in relation to factories, the main consideration is to protect non- smokers from second-hand smoke, and using separate ventilation systems may be the most effective way to do this. Case said he would be okay with banning smoking inside all businesses,but he could also support separate rooms with separate HVAC systems as an incremental step toward eliminating second-hand smoke. Councilmember Mosman agreed. Luse said that at the end of the day the majority of residents will define the issue based on how it affects their pocketbooks. If banning smoking will cost the community money in terms of tax revenues,possibly in the millions of dollars,he does not believe they will support an ordinance. Case said that type of obfuscation was not helpful, that referring to millions of dollars in lost taxes ignores the fact that adverse health effects of second-hand smoke cost Minnesotans billions of dollars. Case asked if the Council could continue the Workshop after the regular Council Meeting since it was clear they would not reach a consensus in the time remaining. Rosow said the Council could continue the Workshop after the regular meeting. IV. OTHER TOPICS Council Chamber V. OPEN FORUM (Scheduled participants, 6:30-6:50 p.m.) x 52�I L-or 17: !" A. PAUL «'ENDORFF—S11I0Ih'ING ORDINANCE Mr.Wendorff said he is an 1 S-year resident of Eden Prairie, and that he does not represent any group. He said he expressed his concerns in July about potential conflicts of interest on the Council regarding a proposed smoking ordinance. Since then,he has attended meetings with City staff, the Attorney General, and Eden Prairie residents. Wendorff referred Council to a request he faxed earlier in the day requesting a task force to investigate the conduct of the Eden Prairie City Council regarding the proposed smoking ban ordinance. Wendorff gave a 50-page document outlining the basis for his request to City Manager Neal. Wendorff s concerns included what he called illegal MPAAT lobbying of Councilmembers. Mayor Tyra-Lukens asked City Attorney Rosow to comment on Wendorff s request. Rosow said using the term"illegal"in relation to MPAAT's activities is misleading. A distinction should be made between illegal activity and something that should not have ideally been done. Councilmember Luse said he had concerns about MPAAT going back to April 16. He said that wrongdoing is a matter of perception as it relates to public service. The Council must make sure everything it does is done properly. Even if something is not illegal, the Council has to deal with the matter of perception. Councilmember Case said every resident has the right to raise individual concerns, as Mr. Wendorff has done. However, the Council needs to remember that Wendorrf is just one individual, and represents only himself. He said the Council should carefully consider how to respond to his proposal,which would be costly to implement. Case said to interrupt the process the Council has begun with respect to a smoking ordinance would constitute a gross misspending of funds. Case said it is his understanding that if Wendorrf wishes to pursue his concerns, he can file a court case. He said the Council would have to look to the City Attorney for counsel on the issue. Mayor Tyra-Lukens recommended adding the issue to the regular meeting agenda so they could move on to the next speaker. B. TOM DAY—MINNESOTA RESTAURANT ASSOCIATION Mayor Tyra-Lukens said Mr. Day had informed the City Manager's Office he would be unable to attend the Forum. C. GARY CHANEN—OUTBACK STEAKHOUSE Mr. Chanen said he is a managing partner of Outback Steakhouse in Eden Prairie. He said he was disturbed by an article in the previous week's Eden Prairie Neivs. He said restaurant owners have invested millions of dollars in Eden Prairie, and it is offensive to be accused of not being concerned about public health. He asked what the City is doing for restaurants and said telling restaurants what to do now is unacceptable. He said the Mayor's comment in the article regarding her belief that large numbers in the community want smoke-free restaurants was offensive. Chanen said he feels the Mayor is attempting to blacklist some restaurants, even though they are already moving toward non-smoking on their own. He said he has heard rumors of the City taking cigarette sales out of the liquor stores,which he called"a petty effort." He asked the Council to"stop a runaivay train—stop So rer: or 17,.'02 this ordinance."He left copies of letters from an Eden Prairie tanning business and a manufacturing company,both opposing a smoking ban. N7I. OPEN PODIUM (Unscheduled participants, 6:50-7:00 p.m.) Eden Prairie High School student Stacy Beritz read a letter she wrote in support of a smoking ban. Kathy Paltz, an Eden Prairie resident and former smoker, said if she had known how unhealthy second-hand smoke was she never would have exposed her children to it. She asked the Council to approve a second-hand smoke ordinance. Pat, resident of Bloomington, said she has to carry oxygen with her for medical reasons. She said she realizes her health problems are a result of her own smoking, but her mother also suffered from emphysema even though she never smoked. Pat said she cannot go into most Eden Prairie restaurants because smoking is allowed. She would like to see restaurant environments free of smoke. Cindy Schultz,Eden Prairie resident, said she supports a smoking ordinance because it will help save lives. She is concerned about talk of a compromise ordinance, and asked the Council to stand firm. III. PROPOSED SMOKING ORDINANCE (continued from before regular Council Meeting) Mayor Tyra-Lukens reconvened the Workshop at 9:25 p.m. Tyra-Lukens suggested picking up the discussion at smoking in factories and manufacturing facilities. Councilmember Butcher asked to make a couple of statements before continuing the discussion. She said the Councilmembers' oath says they will remain independent of thought until all information is gathered on an issue. She had gotten a letter from the Chamber of Commerce just last Friday, stating that they are against a smoking ordinance. In light of this,Butcher said she would like to ask the Council to develop a resolution asking the state to review the second-hand smoke issue in relation to the Minnesota Clean Indoor Air Act. Butcher stated that she is also in favor of voluntary guidelines rather than legal regulations. Case said he would like to try to figure out where points of consensus exist among the Councilmembers. He said it appears that wo Councilmembers would vote against even a compromise ordinance. If the Council passes an ordinance with only a 3-2 vote,he asked what message that would convey to the community. Case said that he liked the Eden Prairie School District's policy of no- smoking on school grounds. He felt the City could comfortably pass a similar policy for government-owned properties. He said his goal still is to not have smoking anywhere in the state,but that the Council will be doing themselves and the community a disservice if they pass a ban that is viewed negatively by surrounding communities. He thinks it might be more effective to "take control of what we can control, and get away from trying to regulate private business." Case said he would like to pledge the Council to continue to carry the flag to eliminate Cyr 4T,11 tr�r's'.r:'Fora-i So :ez,:�or 17, 'UJ2 second-hand smoke. He said Councilmembers could promote the cause to other cities. He envisions 20 mayors marching into St.Paul demanding action. Butcher said 28 communities have already written to the State asking them to address the issue of second-hand smoke. She said the issue is too confusing to address on a local level, and action must take place on a comprehensive, statewide basis. Mayor Tyra- Lukens said Butcher presented some compelling reasons to deal with the second-hand smoke issue on an incentive basis. She said she agrees the worst thing the Council could do would be to pass an ordinance that is disrespected and disregarded. Though her goal would be for everywhere to be smoke-free, she asked if it would be fair to "sacrifice the City" in quest of a local ordinance. However, she said she is not convinced sending a resolution to the State would be effective, and she would not be satisfied with only a set of guidelines. She suggested holding a candidate foram before the upcoming election to find out where legislative candidates stand on the issue. Case said he has spoken with members of the Chamber and visited nine or 10 Eden Prairie restaurants. He believes there is a lot of room for restaurants to do what is right and still make money. He said this issue would be perfect for a task force that would focus on the positive—how to help bring about incremental changes in second-hand smoke exposure. Councilmember Mosman said that although she is no medical expert, she feels she has to rely on the data presented by medical experts that second-hand smoke is detrimental to health. If this is true, they are not doing their duty as Councilmembers if they pass a weak ordinance. She pointed out that the Attorney General indicated it was within the authority of the Council to pass an ordinance. Butcher said that while all of the Councilmembers agree that smoking is bad, there are a lot of things that are unhealthy that the Council doesn't regulate. She said individual rights and the right to choose are issues as well. Individuals still have a choice of whether or not to go into a place that allows smoking. She said a good start would be to ban smoking on all publicly-owned properties, even out-of-doors. She said she has always been in favor of forming a task force that would include health organizations and local businesses and would develop incentive-based initiatives. This task force could also draft a resolution for the City to send to the State. Councilmembers could also take the issue to the MLC and urge them to explore options. Case said if the Council's actions don't include regulations,he would at least like to develop a list of"hopes" for directions in which the City would like restaurants and businesses to move in relation to second- hand smoke. One goal could be for smoke-free lunch times in restaurants throughout the City. Case said any goals the Council establishes must be monitored over time. Case also suggested"running a major survey"of the community on the issue. He said the task force could gather data over a year and then readdress the issue. Tyra-Lukens asked if the other Councilmembers had an idea of what measures restaurants in town might support. She feels it is important to have the restaurants on board with whatever a task force might propose. She said she would ultimately want to see smoke-free family dinner time in restaurants in addition to lunch hours. Case suggested offering incentives, such as free advertising, for restaurants that go smoke-free. Tyra-Lukens said she liked the concept of trial periods, after which a review would take t,{f Cr,aYr11 j:�T�_r:u��:�"1't1Tst T`Y Sop e7-Lr 17,202 place. Butcher said she would not be comfortable with any type of regulation that was not first put before a task force and/or the Chamber. Councilmember Mosman said she was concerned about bumping the issue up to the State level since that is where the majority of tobacco industry anti-regulation money is spent. Councilmember Luse said he felt a lot of progress had been made,but he cautioned the Council that it sounded like they were going back to square one with the idea of appointing a task force. He said no one is going to be happy and he doesn't believe it will "have a whole lot of meat to it"unless actions are based on what constituents want and what is in their best interest. He asked the Council to be cautious about legal exposure. He said as an American he tends to err on the side of freedom and individual rights. As an appointed Councilmember he errs on the side of believing that the issue is just too close to call. He does not see a mandate. He asked all sides to tone down the rhetoric and issued a challenge to all in this town to neutralize the negativity stemming from this issue. Case said he was not sure of David's position,that he has indicated he would like to err on the side of health,individual rights, and what the majority of people want. Luse said he believed he had been crystal clear. He feels it is his responsibility to err on the side of the majority, but he has yet to hear any hard numbers. Case said that his impression is that the majority of people want a smoking ban that won't have any negative effects. Butcher said she seemed to be hearing some agreement on a ban on smoking in publicly- owned places. Tyra-Lukens and Luse said they could support such a ban. Case said he just wanted to say a few words about Luse's assertion that the Council had gone back to step one with the suggestion of forming a task force. He said he believed that the task force that is being discussed today is very different from the one proposed in April. Tyra-Lukens said she was wary of relying on statistics. Surveys are not necessarily scientific, and the results depend largely on what and how questions are asked. Rosow said he wanted to clarify the Council's direction based on the evening's discussion. His understanding was that they wished to draft an ordinance to ban smoking in all publicly owned spaces,both indoors and outdoors. By publicly owned, they meant everything owned by a government entity,not just the City. Case said he would also like staff to explore the possibility of a task force charter. Luse suggested that one of the most important tasks is to communicate to the business community what the Council will not be doing—namely regulating smoking at private businesses. The Council agreed they would hold further discussions on how to proceed at the October 1,2002,Work-shop at 4:00 p.m. in the Heritage Rooms. VU. ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourned at 10:50 p.m.