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HomeMy WebLinkAboutFlying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission - 10/09/2025Approved Minutes Eden Prairie Flying Cloud Airport Commission Meeting 7 p.m. Thursday, October 9, 2025 City Center Heritage Room] 8080 Mitchell Road Eden Prairie, MN 55344 ATTENDEES Commission Members: Chair Dan Dorson, Vice Chair Marc Morhack, Vinod Pillai, Nick Rogers, Warren Loken, Laura Herrmann (Business Representative), Robert Dockry (Airport Manager) Student Representatives: Jiya Nair, Avery Robinson, Om Roshan, Liam Kremer, Ava Mahan- Cleveland, Kaavaya Checka, Ava Willette, Kira McDowell, Zyva Iqbal MAC Staff: Ryan Anderson, Michelle Ross City Staff: Scott Gerber, Eden Prairie Fire Chief, Kristin Harley, Recording Secretary MEETING AGENDA I. Call the Meeting to Order Chair Dorson called the meeting to order at 7 p.m. MAC staff Ross and student representative Robinson were absent. II. Approval of Agenda MOTION: Loken moved, seconded by Pillai, to approve the agenda. Motion carried 5-0. Dorson had the commission members and the student representatives introduce themselves. III. Minutes A. Flying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission meeting held Thursday, July 10, 2025 MOTION: Loken moved, seconded by Morhack, to approve the minutes of the Flying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission meeting Thursday, July 10, 2025. Motion carried 5-0. IV. Public Comment Gerber stated he had received a phone call from Scott Thompson regarding jet traffic, specifically one with a navy-blue fuselage which took off in the middle of the night. Thompson asked when older, noisier jets would go out of service. FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES October 9, 2025 Page 2 Dorson stated the older jets tended to make more noise, and while older jets could still be flown, the FAA mandated that new jets had to be made quieter. Anderson replied this was true, adding there was especially an advantage to sustainable, quieter aircraft in commercial aviation. High bypass engines were more efficient, less noisy, and the hope was this would trickle down into the smaller aircraft. In general, the tendency in aviation was to become even quieter with the transition to new aircraft, especially with electric aircraft. Dorson noted that training aircraft could be among the first to be electrified. V. Focus Topics for the Meeting A. Noise Program Comparison (highlights of a recent study – MAC Anderson introduced Sai Lakku, intern, who conducted a benchmarking study to look at similar airports across the country similar to the area’s reliever airports and compare their noise abatement procedures to ours. Lakku summarized her findings. First, she gave an introduction to the program: voluntary noise abatement measures were recommended practices aimed to reduce aircraft impact on airport surrounding communities, and FAA regulations prohibited public airports like Flying Cloud from creating and enforcing rules that were not federally approved. There were 5,000 public airports across the United States, not all of which had noise abatement programs. There were 25 General Aviation Airports across the U.S., which were compared in this study using the following criteria: noise abatement program initiators, outreach methods and complaint system(s) used. Lakku displayed a matrix of the results, showing the other 24 airports compared to Flying Cloud Airport. Most, like Flying Cloud, had recommended practices, flight tracking, voluntary measures and some noise complaint system. Unlike Flying Cloud, some did not have an advisory board, pilot resources, quiet hours or a preferred runway. Flying Cloud was one of the more proactive airports in the noise abatement effort, having a 24-7 noise complaint phone line, online form and email. Quiet hours at Flying Cloud Airport were 22:00 – 7:00 for local traffic and 24:00 – 7:00 for training flights. Flying Cloud Airport also provided a Fly Neighborly Guide to pilots. Loken asked for clarification of the recommendation for southbound turns and flying over the river. Dockry explained southbound turns referred to using the south parallel, which air traffic controllers used more often now even for smaller flights to mitigate noise. However, no pilot approaching from the north would be directed to the southbound lane. Dorson asked how this was possible when it had been difficult before due to fast-moving traffic. Dockry replied a solution had been found in communication with the flight schools. FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES October 9, 2025 Page 3 Rogers asked if the airport could track runway usage. Anderson replied the resolution data became “fuzzy” close to the ground, and one could not easily differentiate between the two runways, but MAC staff tried to do this as best they could and would tag the runway if possible. Herrmann stated from her personal experience she was noticing more flight school airplanes were directed to the south parallel to separate them from the residential areas. Lakku presented the Fly Neighborly Guide. Elements included best practices for takeoff and approach, traffic patterns, maintenance run-ups, helicopter training, and nighttime operations. She included a sample of the letter sent to pilots, the letter of agreement, and the noise abatement plan. Comparative insights showed that Manassas Regional airport (KHEF) sent instant alerts to frequent noise reporters. Miami-Opa Locka Executive (KOPF) used AI and deep learning in an ongoing experimental study to identify the origin of noise, data modeling, and noise event classification. The Spirit of St. Louis (KSUS) and Morristown Municipal (KMMU) airports used social media alongside their websites, newsletters, branding and advisory meetings for outreach. The Flying Cloud Airport had a unique partnership between the City of Eden Prairie and the MAC via the MAC Agreement and Operational Plan for the Flying Cloud Airport. It focused on maintaining consistent and transparent communication through established channels and used automated systems and visualization tools to efficiently organize and interpret noise data, while also relying on manual verification to ensure accuracy. Instead of leveraging social media, Flying Cloud Airport engaged in strong outreach via its web portal, the newsletter, advisory meetings with flight schools, and pilot seminars. All materials were accessible online. Anderson added machine learning had been built into the MACNOMS system, having been patented a few years ago, and had been incorporated into noise and operations monitoring of airports. Herrmann requested to see the research matrix slide again showing the comparison of the 25 Reliever Airports. Anderson stated Dallas Executive was a good comparison with Flying Cloud Airport. Herrmann stated she had met with the noise abatement staff at Centennial Airport which had similar procedures and the same issues. Anderson agreed this airport had similar fight schools and was in a comparative situation. Rogers asked if the use of AI could nail down times of greatest noise. Anderson replied this capability was not fully developed yet but it was a future opportunity. Staff were looking at predictive measures on the larger scales to determine what areas were overflown more, and to account for all variables. Morhack noted the data had also revealed in the past that there were certain times (for example, residents spending more time outside) when noise is more intrusive despite the same aircraft used and similar sound output as at other times. Anderson agreed, and added noise was also FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES October 9, 2025 Page 4 subjective; some find airport noise pleasant, and some found it annoying. Rogers wondered if subtiers could be added to the data, to tie to the complaint in order to inform. Dorson thanked Anderson and Lakku for their presentation. B. Preview of FSM Fly Neighborly Interactive Guide – MAC Anderson gave some background for the student representatives and presented the digi-guide. He stated that Flying Cloud Airport stacked up well against other reliever airports, but always focus for improvement. There were four flight schools at Flying Cloud, and there was a lot of turnover of students in flight schools. This was understandable, as students went on to careers with airlines. There was also a lot of turnover of certified flight instructors who logged time in order to advance their careers. The essential challenge was how to reach the stakeholders in the community. Historically Flying Cloud Airport, in partnership with the MAC, conducted outreach by meeting with the flight schools to present the guidelines and best practices. As staff sought a better way to do that, the result was the Fly Neighborly Guide. It was scaled to all reliever airports, and would be provided to all flight schools as part of the students’ onboarding process and to all flight instructors. The challenge was to make it engaging, to get buy in and build appreciation for the surrounding community. The goal was to build respect and appreciation for Eden Prairie residents and drive home the importance of this. Anderson displayed the DRAFT online resource and explained the platform used (DigiTech) was not specifically a video, but a tool. The tutorial was interactive, shareable, and combination of the functionalities of a website and a PowerPoint. It was web-based, flexible, scalable, and customizable, and could incorporate video. Dockry added one of the challenges faced with producing a video was the various changes Flying Cloud was undergoing, whereas this digi-guide could easily be edited without requiring changes to the permalink. The URL for the guide would remain constant (an evergreen link). Anderson agreed, adding the FAA was constantly updating standards. The view was able to view the full presentation or link directly to specific topics (e.g., the STP Helicopter training). There would be this one guide serving all MAC Reliever Airports; there was no need for separate videos. Built-in analytics would show views, what parts of the guide were viewed, and engagement levels (how many people had view which parts). It also consolidated these analytics information in one convenient location. It also provided links to the recommendations and guidance documents. FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES October 9, 2025 Page 5 Anderson presented the draft guide introduction with the placeholder voiceover narration and explained the navigation to the other sections of the tutorial. He added graphics and animation would be added to the digi-guide. He asked for feedback and suggestions from the commission members and especially the student representatives. Morhack asked how visiting pilots were made aware of this digi-guide, and Anderson replied it was provided via the flight schools and other means of advertising it (via QR codes, et cetera) were being explored. Dockry added staff were exploring outreach via the newsletters to the hangars. Anderson added that beyond the pilot community at Flying Cloud, staff would work with For Flight. Herrmann explained ForFlight was an electronic go-to resource about any airport, an electronic “flight bag” for which pilots paid an annual subscription. Anderson summarized the final slide of the guide. Dorson asked for feedback from the student representatives. Herrmann distributed her iPad with ForFlight loaded for each student representative to explore. Mike Neuharth [resident] asked since these best practices were voluntary what was the incentive for pilots to follow these standards when they could only be at the flight schools for six months. Dorson stated that as a pilot in training he wanted to learn local knowledge at a new airport, more than just the rules; pilots wanted to know the “gauge”. Kremer agreed the tutorial worked well. Gerber displayed the short video created by Dorson offering three broad tips for flying neighborly. Rogers stated both of these resources increased pilots awareness of the simple things to maintain a good relationship with the community; no message would reach everyone, but it would supply enough people with good information. Dockry also replied to Mike Neuharth’s question, stating in his experience if students really care about regulatory standards, the commercial pilot standards were more restrictive than at reliever airports, and pilots wished to be good neighbors and have a career. Aviation was an industry that had high standards, and if these were not met 90 percent of time, the student would not qualify for certification. If was important to give constant reminders, because of turnover, and also for those who have not flown for a while. Mike agreed, but added that as a 35-year resident, he saw flight training increase since Covid, and as someone who lived on the west side of the southern parallel runway, he experienced more traffic. He also asked if the time had changed since he observed training flights began at midnight. Anderson replied it had not changed; staff allowed flight training midnight to 7:00 a.m. as part of the nighttime training requirement. Dockry added there was also a nighttime cross country training requirement. FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES October 9, 2025 Page 6 Dockry explained the best practices were voluntary because of grant assurances. Reliever airports were public use airports, and when they converted from military to public use, it came with the obligation to uphold that investment. These airports also accepted federal grants, so grant assurances were required, such as nondiscrimination, no limit to operations, and to remain open to the traveling public 24-7. There were a lot of the nighttime operations (especially in winter) from air ambulance transports, such as organ tissue flights and carrying of the injured. These were part of the federal obligations as a reliever airport. Loken asked of there was an opportunity to balance between the other reliever airports, since Flying Cloud was the largest. Dorson replied one could request this but no one could tell businesses to move. Dockry replied since this could only be voluntary, that was why they were working with the flight schools to try and spread out the operations and noise, but no one could tell them where to operate. Herrmann reminded Mike that flight schools bring economic opportunities to Eden Prairie. Anderson added that use of reliever airports was demand-driven like any business. Anderson stated the digi-guide link was not yet live yet, but commission members had access to the draft. Staff would revise and make improvements and bring it back to the commission for another review. Hopefully, the digi-guide would be available for the training season in spring 2026. VI. Standing Discussion Items A. Noise Report – MAC Anderson explained the noise management system for the student representatives and presented the third quarter 2025 noise report. Late spring and summer were the busiest months, generally. Compared to third quarter 2024, total operations were up 6 percent, at 46,390, compared to 43,653 in 2024. Nighttime operations were down almost 40 percent, at 1,777, compared to 2,490 in 2024. Complaints were down 60 percent: 1,123 complaints from 50 households compared to 2,795 complaints from 63 locations in the third quarter of 2024. There was a 20 percent reduction in locations. Nighttime complaints were also down over 60 percent, at 206 from 24 households compared to 533 from 36 households in the third quarter of 2024. Morhack asked why there was a drop in nighttime operations. Anderson stated he could give no specific reason but hopefully pilots were following the Fly Neighborly guide. He followed up on a question from the previous meeting regarding the spike of complaints in March 2025, saying this was due to three households making 85 percent of the complaints. Morhack noted that there would be zero military operations but there was one such complaint on the report. Anderson replied there were generally no military operations, FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES October 9, 2025 Page 7 but a complainant could claim it was military, thus generating this result. Gerber noted the C-130 flew into Flying Cloud Airport during the Air Fair. Dockry replied it could be that, or also the Blackhawk. Rogers replied to Mike’s earlier question, saying there was a spike in flight training during Covid, and asked if the demand curve for new pilots licenses was still on the upswing. Dockry replied operations up this year; aviation was a cyclical industry, but the pilot shortage was coming to an end, whereas there was now an aircraft mechanic shortage. Flight school enrollment was up. Herrmann stated the better opportunities at present were aircraft maintenance and air traffic control. Anderson agreed, stating these were also rewarding careers for students to consider. Anderson explained the heat map for the student representatives. There were no specific locations listed in order to keep confidential information private. The west side of airport showed more complaints than other areas. Dorson explained the MACNOMS system for the student representatives. B. Ordinance 97 Monitoring – MAC Dockry stated there 34 violations in third quarter of 2025, compared to 30 in 2024. The breakdown was as follows: • in July, 10 violations from 4 operators • in August, 14 violations from 8 operators • in September (preliminary), 10 violations from 6 operators He noted there were not as much as he expected due to St. Paul being shut down. That airport was completed on August 16. Anderson explained for student representatives that St. Paul had shut down its primary runway for reconditioning, necessitating the rerouting of some aircraft. Airport Incidents and Operational Updates – MAC Dockry stated there were no runway incidents but there were a couple in-flight emergencies. Some construction had been pushed toward the end of the year. Gates G and H would complete reconstruction (near FlyWise and the ballfield) in the next week or so. Both would be shut down for approximately 10 days. The north service road (to Thunderbird Aviation and the Premier Jet Center) would be asphalted and have a slight realignment of the road. The rotary line was being shifted north. The airport was also replacing all the culverts from the hangar road to the north side of the road. Hopefully this would be completed this year; otherwise it would be completed in the spring. FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES October 9, 2025 Page 8 The airport was demolishing the last taxiway around the TOFA area because five hangars stuck out too far on the Alpha taxiway. The airport worked with all five tenants, and one hangar was demolished, three shortened their hangar, and the last would also be demolished. This would increase jetway safety. The new air traffic control tower was moving forward despite the government shutdown. Construction bids would be taken in November and the groundbreaking would take place next spring. Dockry explained for the student representatives that the present control tower built in 1963 was too short and set back too far for the airport’s current needs and today’s federal requirements. The new one would be twice as high and provide better visuals for the air traffic controllers. The Eagle Scout project was completed, having erected interpretive signage at the viewing area: the History of Flying Cloud Airport and Common Aircraft seen at Flying Cloud. Dorson displayed photographs of the signage. C. Long Term Comprehensive Plan Update – MAC Dockry explained for the student representatives that every 10 years all airports needed a new master plan, which was a 15-year outlook on the needs of the airport. Everything in the plan was eligible for federal funding. There were many stakeholders in this process and it was also sent to neighborhood meetings. Overall, the plan would not make the runways longer or increase the size of the airport. It would allow for more hangars, and the taxiway Alpha northside extension would prevent the rerouting of taxiing aircraft. The plan was sent off to the Metropolitan Council, which approved it, and then was adopted by the MAC commission in September. The next step was a formal safety risk assessment panel, and staff would be working with FAA on a MLS (Modification of Standards), then an Environmental Assessment to look at possible historical ground and noise impacts. This would be a 12- month process. Then staff would start funding the plan via the capital improvement program. There were 22 programs to be funded. He had not yet heard when the SRNP panel would be held. Rogers asked for and received confirmation there were no short term impacts from the government shutdown. Anderson stated aviation was in a good position in Minnesota with staffing at MAC airports, whereas other airports around country were understaffed. VII. OLD BUSINESS Flying Cloud Airport Tour – October Dorson explained this was usually done in springtime, but suggested a fall tour instead to get the student representatives out earlier. He suggested October 22 at 4:00 p.m.. FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES October 9, 2025 Page 9 Everyone would meet in the parking lot at Executive Aviation. The tour would end by 5:30 p.m. Dorson stated he would work with Dockry to send out an RSVP. Rogers asked if there would be interest in a Crystal Airport tour for comparison of reliever airports, and Dorson suggested perhaps in the spring. Dockry also suggested an MSP tour of the field maintenance bays and ramps. He added the participants could have dinner at the St. Paul Airport. VIII. New Business Herrmann stated Sergeant Tom Lowry, the longtime police liaison for the airport, had retired and Sgt. Jordan Koras, was taking over. Dockry informed the student representatives that many airports had their own ARFF (airport rescue firefighting force), Flying Cloud does not, and MSP had its own police and fire department. Herrmann also announced her twice annual FAA safety webinars for pilots regarding noise abatement. However, the fall meeting on October 25 might have to be cancelled due to the government shutdown, and if so, would be rescheduled for March 2026. She added these were seen every week, on all aviation topics, by 800-1,200 people from around the world. She added for the benefit of the student representatives that she also had a YouTube Channel: “Saturday Morning Coffee and Wings” which also provided the webinars. All were free. Loken stated that in the past commission members joined the meetings with the flight schools and asked if this could be done again. Dockry offered to set something up in November and stated he would reach out to Loken and Mike. There was one held every quarter. IX. Upcoming Events and Topics for Future FCAAC Meetings X. Adjournment The next FCAAC meeting will be held on Thursday, January 8, 2026 at 7:00 p.m. in Heritage Room I. MOTION: Loken moved, seconded by Pillai to adjourn. Motion carried 6-0. The meeting was adjourned at 8:39 p.m.