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HomeMy WebLinkAboutFlying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission - 07/10/2025APPROVED MINUTES FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION THURSDAY, JULY 10, 2025 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER 8080 MITCHELL RD COMMISSION MEMBERS: Chair: Dan Dorson Vice Chair: Marc Morhack Commissioners: Vinod Pillai Nick Rogers Warren Loken Laura Herrmann (Business Representative) Robert Dockry (Airport Manager) COMMISSION STAFF: Scott Gerber, Eden Prairie Fire Chief Kristin Harley, Recording Secretary MAC STAFF: Ryan Anderson Michelle Ross I. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL Commission Chair Dorson called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. Commission member Morhack and MAC staff Ross were absent. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA MOTION: Rogers moved, seconded by Pillai to approve the agenda. Motion carried 6-0. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES MOTION: Herrmann moved, seconded by Pillai to approve the minutes of the April 10, 2025 minutes. Motion carried 6-0. IV. PUBLIC COMMENT - none V. FOCUS TOPICS FOR THE MEETING a. Gather input for still-in-progress proposed video for flight instructors Dorson stated the commission would like to see a video produced for the flight instructors. Herrmann asked why there was a delay in its completion. Anderson, new manager of Community Relations for MAC, replied he considered the video a fantastic idea, and it was being developed. Budgeting was a concern, as this project FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION July 10, 2025 Page 2 had not been budgeted. The video was being scaled toward all reliever airports, not just Flying Cloud, though it would be tailored toward Flying Cloud and each reliever airport. He had viewed the recent draft and was pleased with its progress. Dockry emphasized this would not be a generic video and was being professionally produced. Anderson added the “video” was more of an online tool allowing the viewer to choose the specific reliever airport. Dorson asked each commission member to give Anderson feedback and concerns. Loken stated some of the seniors and juniors in the flight schools seemed interested in taking on the video and was disappointed that would now not happen. He joined the commission to advocate for the community but sensed a lack of power to mitigate noise. He wished to communicate the impact of flights on the community, which to him were obvious. Gerber stated the intent of the video was to focus on Flying Cloud Airport to emphasize the “Fly Neighborly” philosophy in the face of the high turnover of flight instructors at the flight schools, focusing on repetitive, noisy, and annoying activities. The video had been envisioned by the commission to be short, about five minutes long. Dockry replied this project had to be integrated with the MAC schedule and would be concise. Rogers stated there would always be bad actors, but as a pilot he understood the importance of remembering the impact on residents. It was easy to fly over a neighborhood and forget one’s impact. He suggested including testimony from the community, or even footage from someone’s deck. Dorson agreed. Loken added pollution was also a concern. He counted in one evening 51 flights over his neighborhood and also recorded averages. He wished to correlate these with Flight Tracker and found some discrepancies. Dorson stated the video should have a community piece, as well as suggesting instructors limit touch-and-goes, limit takeoffs, power up, utilization of other reliever airports, et cetera. Adherence to the voluntary night restrictions were another concern, especially with the required night training. Dockry agreed with including testimonials and other community pieces. Anderson replied he would incorporate these comments, including the community perspectives, in his meetings with MAC staff on the tutorial. Dockry clarified the point of the video was to promote the “Fly Neighborly” standards. Herrmann stated she had offered to produce a video herself. Dockry stated he would take these comments back to MAC. Dorson emphasized 1) pilot awareness, and 2) technical concrete examples and suggestions to avoid “buzzing” buildings. Anderson stated the current video was still a draft and was focused on educating any pilot, not just instructors, to increase awareness. He hoped to have an example soon to bring to the commission. Herrmann stated she worked with Mankato State University students the same age as these instructors, and she feared they would tune out the testimonials. Dockry asked FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION July 10, 2025 Page 3 for and received clarification the students were more focused on procedures. Discussion followed on whether the “Fly Neighborly” message would reach them. Dockry replied that in having met with the flight schools multiple times, instructors were amenable to the message on community impact. Dorson suggested a multi-pronged approach: testimonials, but also facts and best practices. Herrmann agreed this was how she related these concepts to her students as being pertinent to their careers. Dockry suggested linking noise abatement to other, larger airports. Herrmann agreed, saying it was important to correlate behavior to students’ and instructors’ ultimate goal (flying and earning income). Rogers again emphasized there would be some who would not be reached, but the situation could be improved. Pillai echoed the concept of including community input considering the increase in flights. Dorson confirmed with Anderson and Dockry they now had clear feedback to proceed. VI. STANDING DISCUSSION ITEMS a. NOISE REPORT – MAC Anderson presented the second quarter 2025 noise report. Compared to second quarter 2024, there were 2,423 complaints (versus 1,385 in this quarter in 2024) from 49 households (compared to 44 in 2024), a significant increase of 75 percent more complaints. There were 467 nighttime complaints from 23 households (19 percent of second quarter 2025 complaints), compared to 274 complaints from 28 households in 2024. Anderson went through the complaints month-by-month in 2025: 1,638 complaints in April, 371 in May, and 414 in June. He noted a drop-off in complaints since March 2025. Total operations in the second quarter of 2025 were 39,636, up 23 percent compared to 32,178 operations in the second quarter of 2024. Again, the month-by-month totals for the second quarter of 2025 were: 12,871 in April, 13,734 in May and in June, a little over 13,000 operations. Anderson displayed the complaint heat map. Loken stated he appreciated the data but suggested measuring the number of complaints logged versus the frustration in the community. He said he was concerned the numbers did not represent a true picture of what was happening and wished to make the metrics more intuitive. Anderson stated these numbers represented all complaints: online and via phone or email. MAC’s process was one of the better methods of gathering as many complaints as possible. FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION July 10, 2025 Page 4 Dorson noted 2025 showed an increase from 2024 but in 2023 the number of operations were even higher. Dockry stated operations were up 26 percent since January. Student enrollments were up, though the weather in April 2025 was more difficult for flying. Dorson noted the same households could file multiple complaints. Anderson replied he had not looked at the high number complaints in March to see if they were from the same households. Dockry asked for and received confirmation both frequency and noise were measured. Gerber suggested Anderson look back at the April 2025 minutes for Rogers’ request for preliminary feedback and explanation for the data showing a spike of operations in March 2025. Rogers agreed, adding the percentage of complaints to operations in March was unique. Anderson offered to provide this in the future. b. ORDINANCE 97 MONITORING – MAC Dockry stated there had been 16 violations during second quarter last year, whereas there were 18 this year from eight different operations. All received letters. The St. Paul primary runway was shut down June 2 until August 18, causing a large influx of jet aircraft traffic at Flying Cloud. The three airports that could accommodate these aircraft were MSP, Flying Cloud, and Anoka. 14 percent were routed to MSP, 16 percent to Anoka, and 24 to were still able to utilize the St. Paul airport. Not many were over 60,000 pounds, but there was an increase. There had been not many in June but he already saw some in July. Capacity was an issued here: MSP and Anoka were at capacity. Also, most aircraft wanted to be hangered inside, not exposed to the elements. There were three FBOs at Flying Cloud, one at Anoka, and one at Minneapolis. The FBO have leased hangar space from other tenants. G-5s, with the largest-cabin corporate aircraft operating out of reliever airports, were still utilizing St. Paul. c. AIRPORT INCIDENTS AND OPERATIONAL UPDATES – MAC Dockry stated the MAC had been clear for incidents in the second quarter of 2025. The Air Fair would be held this Saturday, July 9, from 9:00 a.m. – 4:00 p.m. The airport tenant barbeque would be held August 20. Dockry would send out invitations, as the commission members were invited. Girls in Aviation would be held at In Flight September 20. There would be parking offsite, and bussing participants to In Flight. Construction Updates: FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION July 10, 2025 Page 5 The north service road realigning were on hold, because the Magellan pipeline would go over it, at 17 inches under grade instead of the requisite four feet. The realignment and pavement would be completed this year. Gates G and H were to be completely rehabbed (these were rebid). They were the most prominent and problematic gates The diesel fuel system would be completed next week. The air traffic control tower was on schedule and would receive construction bids in October. The antennae by FlyWise were in the process of a reimbursable agreement for the relocation. This was the planning stage for the relocation of these RTR antennae (control to aircraft). There would be another reimbursable agreement this fall. The redesign would be aesthetically pleasing. Possible relocations would be at the VOR site, since the VORs were being decommissioned, the AWA site (near the ball fields), and near the west side of Executive Aviation. This relocation would split local control to create two locals, one north to the north runway and one south to the south runway. Herrmann commended the concept of two locals. d. LONG TERM COMPREHENSIVE PLAN UPDATE – MAC Dockry stated the antennae improvement correlated with the long-term Comprehensive Plan. This was near completion and being approved by the Metropolitan Council. It was expected to be approved by the MAC by this fall. The end around taxiway would require a safety risk panel, and then an environmental assessment would be done. RCIP would fund the projects. OLD BUSINESS a. Follow-up meetings with Flight Schools reference noise Dorson stated he hoped the commission would continue this work in 2025 with some in-person meetings to show the final results. Dockry agreed and stated MAC would continue to invite the commission members to meetings with flight school instructors. b. Flying Cloud Airport Tour – May 22nd Dorson displayed a PowerPoint slide and described the tour. He thanked Dockry for hosting again. FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION July 10, 2025 Page 6 VI. NEW BUSINESS a. Switching next Flying Cloud Airport Tour to the fall? – October 4:00 p.m. Dorson suggested holding a tour in the fall soon after the first meeting. Dockry suggested a nighttime tour could also be an enjoyable experience. Dorson stated he would want to hold a commission meeting first. Herrmann commended the idea. Gerber stated the students would attend the October 9 meeting. Dorson suggested a 4:00 p.m. tour, since Eden Prairie High School finished the day at 3:20 p.m. Dockry stated he was working with an Eagle Scout (present at this meeting) to add interpretive signage at the Flying Cloud viewing area regarding the history of Flying Cloud Airport and the most commonly used aircraft. He hoped to have this completed by September. The walking path on the west side of the airport was also an opportunity for more signage. Herrmann agreed with adding a history piece. Locken reiterated the need to find more solutions to noise. He displayed a pamphlet created by his neighbors warning potential home buyers about noise. Dorson stated he focused on the juniors flying the planes, as well as the seniors and owners. Herrmann stated the flight school owners had attended commission meetings. Dockry stated he also met with the chief flight instructors and managers (GMs) of these flight schools, as well as the instructors, since the students were not required to attend these meetings. All were very open to adapting and changing procedures. Rogers asked for more specifics on the noise data in tying them to specific operations. Anderson reminded the commission members that MAC could not “police” use but remind operators of the voluntary guidelines. Dockry stated he had a productive conversation with a homeowner who had approached him with 25 touch-and-goes in one operation. Locken noted there were times when the Flight Tracker seemed inaccurate. Anderson replied the lag data from the interpreted data points could be glitchy. Dorson agreed with finding concrete solutions, especially with the video, which he hoped would be completed this year. Gerber reminded Loken that MAC staff sat at the commission table but the commission was the actual members, who were volunteers. Loken acknowledged this and Rodgers noted narrowing the data to operations was a solution the commission members could perform. Hiroshi Takeuchi stated that from the pilot perspective, they were doing as much as can be done, but aviation was primarily about safety, and procedures FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION July 10, 2025 Page 7 could not put pilots in precarious position simply to avoid noise. He saw a failure with communication with the community in general and was frustrated to see the numbers and not see the community participating in the meetings. It was also on the public to understand why flight procedures were followed. Dorson reiterated the importance of following FAA regulations and mentioned the FAA seminar he and Jennifer Ross had held. Herrmann invited the commission members to the Saturday morning webinars she held. She offered send them the link to this and to her YouTube channel, which had a recording on flight patterns. Dorson agreed to continue this discussion on noise at future commission meetings. Gerber stated the Fire Department had an opportunity to partner with MAC on fire training on aircraft at MSP. New Hope and Crystal also participated. Also, five new fire trucks had arrived and would be put in service in August. The older inventory would be sold off. IX. UPCOMING EVENTS AND TOPICS FOR FUTURE FCAAC MEETINGS Air Fair this Saturday 9:00 a.m. – 4:00 p.m. Tenant barbeque, August 20 Girls in Aviation, September 9 X. ADJOURNMENT The next FCAAC meeting will be held on Thursday, October 9, 2025 at 7:00 p.m. in Heritage Room I. MOTION: Herrmann moved, seconded by Rogers to adjourn. Motion carried 6-0. The meeting was adjourned at 8:22 p.m.