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HomeMy WebLinkAboutFlying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission (FCAAC) - 07/10/2025AGENDA FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION July 10, 2025 THURSDAY, JULY 10, 2025 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER HERITAGE ROOM 1/2 (LOWER LEVEL) COMMISSION MEMBERS: Commissioners: Chair: Dan Dorson Vice Chair: Marc Morhack Vinod Pillai Nick Rogers Warren Loken Laura Herrmann (Business Representative) Robert Dockry (Airport Manager) STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES: None for this meeting – new students will be at the October meeting STAFF LIAISON: Scott Gerber, EP Fire Chief Kristin Harley, Recording Secretary MAC STAFF: Jennifer Lewis Michelle Ross I. CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER / ROLL CALL II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES a. Commission meeting held April 10, 2025 IV. PUBLIC COMMENT V. FOCUS TOPICS FOR THE MEETING a. Gather input for still-in-progress proposed video for flight instructors VI. STANDING DISCUSSION ITEMS a. Noise report – MAC b. Ordinance 97 monitoring – MAC c. Airport incidents and operational updates – MAC d. Long Term Comprehensive Plan Update - MAC VII. OLD BUSINESS a. Follow-up meetings with Flight Schools reference noise b. Follow-up on proposed video for flight instructors c. Flying Cloud Airport Tour – May 22nd VIII. NEW BUSINESS a. Switching next Flying Cloud Airport Tour to the fall? – October? IX. UPCOMING EVENTS AND TOPICS FOR FUTURE FCAAC MEETINGS X. ADJOURNMENT a. Next Commission Meeting – October 9, 2025 UNAPPROVED MINUTES FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION THURSDAY, APRIL 10, 2025 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER 8080 MITCHELL RD COMMISSION MEMBERS: Chair: Dan Dorson Vice Chair: Marc Morhack Commissioners: Vinod Pillai Nick Rogers Warren Loken Laura Herrmann (Business Representative) Robert Dockry (Airport Manager) STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES: Aditi Ginuga Bergen Papa Daniel Jiang Matthew Wiedman Patrick Anderson Sumaya Awale Seth Johnson Vincent Schulze COMMISSION STAFF: Scott Gerber, Eden Prairie Fire Chief Kristin Harley, Recording Secretary MAC STAFF: Jennifer Lewis Michele Ross Carey Metcalfe I. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL Acting Chair Morhack called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. Commission Chair Dorson and student commission members Ginuga, Jiang, Awale, and Johnson were absent. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA MOTION: Rogers moved, seconded by Herrmann to approve the agenda. Motion carried 6-0. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION April 10, 2025 Page 2 MOTION: Loken moved, seconded by Rogers to approve the minutes of the January 10, 2025 minutes. Motion carried 6-0. IV. PUBLIC COMMENT - none V. FOCUS TOPICS FOR THE MEETING - none VI. STANDING DISCUSSION ITEMS a. NOISE REPORT – MAC Metcalfe presented the first quarter 2025 noise report. In 2025 so far, there were 3,642 complaints, compared to 1,318 in 2024, a 176 percent increase which he attributed to the warmer weather. Flight operations also increased in 2025. Nighttime complaints rose from 72 from 19 households in the first quarter of 2024 to 273 complaints from 25 households in 2025. Operations rose from 26,746 in the first quarter of 2024 to 32,334 in the first quarter of 2025.Nighttime operations rose slightly from 651 in 2024 to 704 in 2025 for the first quarter. Metcalfe explained that for the first quarter, there were no brown locations on the complaints heatmap, which mostly had paler yellow regions. He explained MAC tried to avoid brown locations, which meant more people were complaining. Dockry added MAC stated working with neighborhoods recently and the complaints were very much related to flight training activity. Ross added she and staff were able to drill down through the complaints to just a few households filing the majority of them. She offered to bring back more information on this at the next meeting. Herrmann asked if there was a comparison of home sales versus complaints, and Ross confirmed there was a correlation between more complaints and more real estate activity. Lewis noted the highest levels were coming from households that were not new purchases, but have been consistently among the high level of complaints over the past three years. In fact, two households were responsible for the majority of the increase. Gerber suggested weather being a factor, since it had been warm early in 2025 as in 2024, and Dockry added when the ceiling was too low, training flights did not fly. Herrmann stated the weather so far in 2025 was bad for pilots. Rogers requested an April update before the next meeting. Lewis replied the data was not finalized until the end of the quarter but she could put together an emailed summary. Schulze asked for and received confirmation the complaints were coming from single family homes. Lewis noted on individual in particular who was a new resident filed many complaints. Morhack asked for and received confirmation this were the individual that MAC met with. FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION April 10, 2025 Page 3 Gerber stated there were a number of individuals from the City who met with this concerned citizen, including Gerber, MAC staff, and City staff. They also met with residents and an HOA representative at the end of March to talk about concerns related to Flying Cloud Airport. It had been a productive meeting with good conversations. Those residents were not able to come tonight but were encouraged to continue to attend meetings, to learn how airports operate, how the FAA operates, and what can and cannot be done. Gerber stated he had received concerns regarding jet traffic (three specific jets) and commended MAC staff for their follow-up. These were related to medical flights, and the resident was satisfied with the follow up and did not need to attend tonight. b. ORDINANCE 97 MONITORING – MAC Dockry stated there had been five violations (one in January, four in March) in the first quarter from two different operators. All received the letter. This was the same number as last year. c. AIRPORT INCIDENTS AND OPERATIONAL UPDATES – MAC Dockry stated there have been five incursions in the first quarter: two from pedestrians or vehicles and three from pilots. There was an Xcel Energy truck which entered looking for Executive Aviation, looking for the fuel system. Executive staff did a good job communicating with the staff in the truck, but it then proceeded onto taxiway Bravo 18-6 toward the new tower site. Dockry worked to establish some standard operating procedures including 24-hour notice in advance of a visit so that an escort could be set up. A pilot had expectation bias of always being clear on a 2-8 left when he was not. There had been a total of eight incursions last year. Flying Cloud Airport was in the top ten for incursions in the nation each year. The airport would be updating two gates and updating signage. Premier Jet Center would have land access in the future which was part of long-term Comprehensive Plan. Gates G and H were being updated. The north service road from Thunderbird to the Premier Jet Center would be reconstructed with additional drainage. The road near Flywise would be straightened to create more of a “T.” The diesel fuel system was being constructed (moving to the Executive location), and the concrete pad had been constructed. Staff were waiting for the tank. The five hangars in the taxiway object free area (Alpha) would be removed, as the taxiway was crowded. One hangar had already been removed; three of the “T” FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION April 10, 2025 Page 4 hangars would be lopped off by July, hopefully beginning in April. One hangar would be demolished in late fall. There would be one retirement of maintenance staff: Bill Halls. The new person was starting on Monday and would be on the weekend shift. Flying Cloud was relocating its RTR antennae in a reimbursable agreement with the FAA; the airport would pay for them, and the FAA would complete the work. This was to comply with the regulation that there be no hangars or obstructions between the RTR and the movement area. Hopefully this would be complete in 2026. Dockry distributed the rendering of the new control tower. He explained the differences between this conceptual rendering and the actual design. It would go out for construction bid in October. Thirty consultants and FAA employees had a site visit the day of 8 inches of snow in February. The tower would be 1,500 feet more in volume and 60 feet higher. There would be a community event of the FAA secure tower and a ribbon cutting. Dockry anticipated completion in late fall 2027, with it being occupiable in 2028. It would have geothermal heating and cooling, with 32 bores 500 feet down, and a backup boiler system. On April 21 Flying Cloud would be closing down the south parallel for the night for repairs on ruts. Morhack asked if the FAA would still be working with Track On to formalize agreements with Flying Cloud. Dockry offered to follow up with answer. d. LONG TERM COMPREHENSIVE PLAN UPDATE – MAC Ross stated the Comprehensive Plan went out for public comment until last Friday. Staff received 22 comments from 15 members of public, Metropolitan Council also commented, and most were related to noise. The next step was to submit the draft plan to the Metropolitan Council for review, and then final adoption. There would be no major updates until the Metropolitan Council acted. OLD BUSINESS a. Follow-up meetings with Flight Schools reference noise Dockry stated he met with Avi8 and the meeting went well. Thunderbird Aviation was next. Rogers noted Ai8 had stepped up its activity, and asked if it operated noisier airplanes, and/or training flight were flying lower. Lewis replied Avi8 conducted a significant amount of training, which included a deliberate use of other airports. The bulk of the training involved multiple touch and goes, FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION April 10, 2025 Page 5 which they tried to farm out to other airports, as did InFlight. InFlight and ATP had more in traffic pattern activity than Avi8. Loken stated he had attended one of the meetings to ensure FCAA commission participation. Dockry added MAC staff worked with Dorson to get a FCAA commission member to always be present. Lewis added this meeting happened very quickly, without a lot of lead time, during a snowstorm which bumped one of their normal meetings, which they couldn’t attend. b. Follow-up on proposed video for flight instructors Lewis stated she was still working on the visuals and scripts. It would be three minutes or less. She would have something to show at the next meeting. It would be interactive, and available to the public via the website. Rogers requested a report of complaints tied to the offending plane tail numbers. Lewis replied if asked, she could pull it together, but this was not something usually done. She did not have a list of current N numbers. Dockry agreed with bringing that to the discussions on a quarterly basis. Rogers added he had never seen an email comparing what community says versus where the hotspots were. Lewis stated she met with flight instructors but there was a lot of turnover. Ross stated the letters sent were based on FAA aircraft registration information, which is not always up to date. Also, the FAA was considering making all that data private, which would make it more difficult to send those letters. Gerber stated he liked Dockry’s idea, as he often took calls from the public saying “this plane is noisier than that one.” Dockry added showing the heatmap was helpful, but staff could narrow down to specific operation. Rogers stated if pilots understood the consequences of their choices they could make good faith changes on own. Lewis stated she received really good feedback at the last pilot seminar relative to the broken down traffic pattern and the explanation of the effect of each piece of the pattern. It made pilots aware of traffic pattern effects. Herrmann stated her noise abatement webinar had 1,161 attendees from multiple countries. They did not necessarily utilize Flying Cloud Airport, but they appreciated the content. Topic covered included: flying neighborly, touch and goes, flight up to 7,000 feet, and highlights. c. Follow up on annual City Council Workshop Presentation in February Gerber presented a PowerPoint and explained Dorson’s and Morhack’s overview: 2024 noise complaints, accomplishments, case studies, changes to FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION April 10, 2025 Page 6 airport long term study, and plan goals for 2025. He offered to email this to the commission members. d. Follow up on noise abatement webinar for pilots – March 1 Herrmann stated there would be another one in October or November, 2025. It would be free. She invited the student representatives to attend. She also announced she had a YouTube channel: “Saturday Morning Coffee and Wings.” e. Follow up to MSP Air Traffic Control Tower Tour Wieman commended the tour for showing the work of the air traffic controllers and stated the student representatives also got to see the walkway. Schultz commended the bird’s-eye view of the airport. Papa stated he was considering a career in air traffic control. Herrmann told him the University of Minnesota-Duluth had a great curriculum. Discussion followed on the requirements. Pillai noted the mandatory age 55 retirement. Morhack commended the two tours and noted the air traffic control tower was dark in the room from tradition. In the past, the air traffic control tower rooms used to be dark because the screens were dark. Also, there was a diversity of clients: not just commercial, but Air Guard, freight and cargo, et cetera. Loken stated he was surprised at the reliance on paper, which perhaps was a backup if the power was lost. Pillai asked if the airport would be expanding. Dockry replied MSP was also going through a long-term Comprehensive Plan and had expansion plans for concourses, on the T-2, and relocation of the FBO. There were no planned changes to the fence line or the runways. Rogers asked if there was a sufficient pipeline from education to hired air traffic controllers. Dockry replied the pipeline was good; the biggest gap he saw was AMPs. The hiring of pilots was catching up. f. Flying Cloud Airport Tour Planning The tentative date was revised to May 22 at 4:00 p.m., before the Board and Commission Banquet. The tour would include Executive Aviation, the MAC building, the air traffic control tower, FBO, Premier Aviation, and In Flight. VI. NEW BUSINESS FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION April 10, 2025 Page 7 Gerber noted this was the last official meeting for the student representatives. He reminded them they were invited to the banquet, and thanked them for their engagement. Gerber added there would be new student representatives in October, with applications due in mid- to late-spring. Appointments would be made in July, after which there would be an orientation. Morhack asked for the student representatives’ perspectives. Papa stated he appreciated learning about the different aspects of aviation and reiterated his interest in being an air traffic controller. Schultz stated he appreciated learning what went on at Flying Cloud. Dockry offered to help the students in any way he could, as did Herrmann, who is on the faculty at Mankato State University and knew about various college programs. Ross urged the students to contact her regarding summer internships. IX. UPCOMING EVENTS AND TOPICS FOR FUTURE FCAAC MEETINGS Air Fair on July 12 Girls in Aviation on September 22 Possible event in October X. ADJOURNMENT The next FCAAC meeting will be held on Thursday, July 10, 2025 at 7:00 p.m. in Heritage Room I. MOTION: Rogers moved, seconded by Loken to adjourn. Motion carried 6-0. The meeting was adjourned at 7:56 p.m.