Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutFlying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission - 01/09/2025APPROVED MINUTES FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION THURSDAY, JANUARY 9, 2025 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER 8080 MITCHELL RD COMMISSION MEMBERS: Chair: Dan Dorson Vice Chair: Marc Morhack Commissioners: Vinod Pillai Nick Rogers Warren Loken Laura Herrmann (Business Representative) Robert Dockry (Airport Manager) STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES: Aditi Ginuga Bergen Papa Daniel Jiang Matthew Wiedman Patrick Anderson Sumaya Awale Seth Johnson Vincent Schulze COMMISSION STAFF: Scott Gerber, Eden Prairie Fire Chief Kristin Harley, Recording Secretary MAC STAFF: Jennifer Lewis Michele Ross Eric Gilles I. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL Chair Dorson called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. Student commission members Ginuga and Awale were absent. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA MOTION: Herrmann moved, seconded by Pillai to approve the agenda. Motion carried 7-0. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION January 9, 2025 Page 2 MOTION: Rogers moved, seconded by Morhack to approve the minutes of the October 10, 2024 minutes. Motion carried 7-0. IV. PUBLIC COMMENT Gerber noted there were no residents attending tonight; however, previous public comments had been followed up on and started good conversations. Gerber was confident there would be continued public attendance in 2025 with continued conversations about their concerns regarding flight training and noise. V. FOCUS TOPICS FOR THE MEETING a. A Future of Minnesota Air Travel: Joe Block, Advanced Air Mobility Program Manager | MnDOT Office of Aeronautics Block presented a PowerPoint and summarized the electric aviation program at MnDOT (Minnesota Department of Transportation). Electric motors were used for lift or propulsion, to transport people or cargo, in larger aircraft, 300 pounds or larger. These were not small drones, but piloted, full electric planes. He displayed a list of leading U.S. original equipment manufacturers and electric prototypes: the Joby Aviation S4 air taxi, the Bye Aerospace eFlyer2 and the Beta Technologies CX300 along with their performance parameters. He showed and explained their range of service circles (100 to 300 miles). Problems OEMs were trying to solve, and motivators to produce and certify electric aircraft: lower emissions, also unleaded alternatives, lower noise, reduction in OPEX (operational expenditures), strengthening of regional airports (132), and cost for equivalent distance. For example, the 300-mile flight Cessna Caravan 208B burned 75 gallons of fuel at a cost of $453.75, whereas an electric charge for this flight would cost $24.08, although it could have a slower cruise speed than the Caravan. Lokken asked if range was mainly a question of battery weight and if battery technologies would continue to improve. Block stated the technology existed now for 250 miles, two to three hours flight or flight training time. The technology for significant improvements was 5-10 years away, possible for greater use by flight schools. Dockry added this would also affect the engine and interface for flight students. Block displayed examples of the electric aircraft charging stations and explained the Beta Charge Cube, and explained the charge time versus kilowatt charger capability. Pilot certification was presently the same, although he was not sure if a pilot certified in an electric aircraft would be qualified for a traditional aircraft. He was not sure how this affected IFR, or FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION January 9, 2025 Page 3 if it would be needed. Electric aircraft motors could be more expensive but simpler to maintain, except for the battery, which was a big question for the future. Block explained the MEAN Overview and Objections (Minnesota Electric Aviation Network), which was an initial step in the broader goal of establishing Minnesota as a leader in sustainable aviation by developing a strategic network of Minnesota airports, highlighting current and future opportunities for electric aviation, and guiding future electric aircraft infrastructure development. There were upcoming stakeholder meetings the commission members were invited to attend. Loken asked how cold weather would affect performance. Block replied that, as in electric cars, cold weather affected the battery. A heating and cooling system, or an electric heat pump, drains battery power. Planes would be stored in heated hangars while connected to a power source, and performance also depended on conditions and operation. More data was needed. Ultimately, electric aircraft had to make good business sense and be profitable. A charger could be a public asset, but it was too early to MnDOT to make those decisions. Gerber asked if the chargers would be included in the Comprehensive Plan. Eric Gilles, MAC Planner, replied this was less of a long term, more operational question. One had to balance the merits of transient versus based aircraft and the infrastructure was different. This was a utility, infrastructure and operational question. Discussion followed on the conversations locally regarding this new technology. Dorson thanked Block for his presentation. b. Flying Cloud Airport employment options - student commissioners to share job postings The student representatives shared the job postings they researched and their requirements. Papa – Aircraft Mechanic, Premier Jet Center, required licenses and certification, A&P, preference for certain aircraft experience. Wiedman had researched the same job posting. Anderson – customer service/dispatch, Thunderbird Aviation, which required a high school diploma, good communication skills, Microsoft Excel, Word, Outlook, responsible for daily opening and closing operations, dispatching aircraft, billing customers, aircraft rental and flight time sales. FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION January 9, 2025 Page 4 Jiang - Aircraft Fueling, Premier Jet Center, which required a high school diploma, customer services skills, written and spoken communication skills. Dorson noted there were Wings insurance agents at the airport; insurance was a possible aviation career. Schulze – also researched the Aircraft Mechanic, as he had difficulty finding other job postings. Johnson had also researched Aircraft Mechanic. Dorson suggested chartered pilot, flight instructors. Dorson agreed to set up a 2025 airport tour. Block announced there would be a MnDOT aviation maintenance and technician conference in March, as held every year. Papa noted a B.A. in accounting or insurance was required for the insurance agent plus years of experience. Morhack stated networking was important in find aviation positions, especially for instructors, as some jobs were not even posted. It helped to be in the right place at right time. VI. STANDING DISCUSSION ITEMS a. NOISE REPORT – MAC Lewis presented the fourth quarter 2024 noise report. She explained her role as the MAC Communications Coordinator and detailed the quarterly report which displayed complaints per operations. In the fourth quarter of 2024, there were 2,315 complaints from 38 households, and 169 nighttime complaints from 25 households. In 2023, there had been 1,412 complaints from 28 locations, and 128 nighttime complaints from 20 nighttime households. Lewis noted this represented a 60 percent increase in this quarter, but an increase by 5 percent for 2024 overall. Fluctuations were based on more operations on good flying days, as there was beautiful flying weather in 2024, then stretches of poor flying weather later in the year. This affected operations and also how residents heard sound, as residents could be outside versus inside, on a phone call, sleeping in, or working at home. Lewis listed peak days, dates and hours: April 26, 2022 was a peak day, with 800 operations and 51 complaints April 26, 2023, there were 872 operations and 8 complaints June 27, 2024, there were 761 operations and 88 complaints Therefore, the highest number of complaints occurred on the lowest operation peak day. Many factors contributed to this. She tried to drill down into specific reasons in her conversations with people. FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION January 9, 2025 Page 5 For example, a peak complaint date, June 10, 2022, there were 139 complaints but 587 operations. On July 30, 2023 there were 96 complaints but 477 operations. On November 23, 2024 there were 148 complaints and 622 operations. She found some correlation to the specific day, as there were fewer complaints during the week, and more complaints on the weekend. Peak operation days were Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays. There was more correlation to what residents considered as personal time than with the number of operations. Rogers asked what structural disturbance meant in the complaints. Lewis replied this was typically vibration. Anderson asked the breakdown of 2,315 complaints from 38 households. Lewis replied one household had communicated more than 2,000 complaints. Dorson noted this was a gauge of the level of frustration. Rogers asked why nighttime operations went up significantly. Lewis did not know specifically why there were nighttime complaint increases in the third quarter, since complaints fell off in the fourth quarter. She noted that the 6 a.m. hour was still considered nighttime, and it was a busy time. July and August tended to be the months with the highest level of operations. Lewis gave a breakdown of peak operations hours: Peak operation hour was over at 11:00 a.m., but there were increases year over year at the 6:00 a.m. hour. There were 1,500 operations at this time in 2022, 2,287 operations in 2023, and almost 2,400 in 2024. The 10:00 p.m. hour was also a peak hour (shoulder hour). All other nighttime hour operations showed the midnight hour having a small increase but increased in 2024 from 2022. The hour showing the least amount of operations was 3:00 a.m., which consisted of mostly medical operations between the 2:00 and 3:00 a.m. hours. Dockry noted medical flights were on call, and would fluctuate. Lewis stated flight schools ceased training by midnight, though they needed a certain amount of nighttime activity to earn and maintain licenses. b. ORDINANCE 97 MONITORING – MAC Dockry stated there had been 18 violations in the fourth quarter from ten different operators. All received the letter. c. AIRPORT INCIDENTS AND OPERATIONAL UPDATES – MAC FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION January 9, 2025 Page 6 Dockry stated it had been relatively quiet. On November 11, 2024 a King Air lost its brakes while taxing and ran into a Cessna 182. There was damage but no injuries. There was not much snow in 2024, but the airport acquired a new deicer, to replace the loaned one. He added the airport cannot use salt. E36 liquid was used to pre-treat runways. The airport also had a new snowblower. There was not much new construction for 2025 but the airport was redoing the north service road from Thunderbird to the intersection near Flywise Jet Center and replacing a couple gates. All gates would have new cameras and access systems. Gates were being repaired in the northwest corner. There was a new diesel fuel system aboveground outside Executive Aviation. The airport was starting to put in utilities for a new tower. The Environmental Assessment was wrapping up, and the airport would break ground for the new tower this year, with an estimated fall 2027 completion time. This would enhance safety and open up hangars for development. The radio towers, RTR transmitters, near Gate G would be relocated with the help of the FAA to prevent future line-sight issues. There was no timeline, and locations were being considered. These were the main transmitters for the airport. Dockry met today for the 2025 Air Expo, renamed the Wings of the North Airfare, which would be a one-day event held July 12, 2025. There would be some flying, but the expo-style event would be more focused on static displays at the airport. The fee would be lowered to a parking fee. Last Monday night there had been a transient aircraft jet maintenance runup at 8:45 p.m. resulting in complaints from Hennepin Village. There was an investigation and the tower had inadvertently taxied the aircraft to the wrong runway. Signage was received for the new Fly Neighborly signs that would be installed all around the airport, including on the gates and on taxi routes. Morhack and Dorson clarified the definition of a runup (engine checking, similar to revving a car engine) for the student representatives. Dockry noted it shook windows, woke people up, and residents smelled jet fuel. Dorson commended the ground enclosure for runups solution. Discussion followed on the runup. d. LONG TERM COMPREHENSIVE PLAN UPDATE – MAC Gilles stated a draft was completed last summer in 2023 and vetted with the FAA, but a preliminary comment review put the Plan on pause. A taxiway on Alpha Drive going west caused the hold from a stakeholder engagement perspective. Originally, there were hold bars to protect airspace, which was a conservative assumption of airspace protection. However, a safety spotlight on Flying Cloud caused additional FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION January 9, 2025 Page 7 scrutiny by the FAA, which asked for a higher level design than was typically needed for a Comprehensive Plan. This resulted in a 10-20 percent design review, and an engineering study to see if hold bars were needed, and it was determined they were not needed. The FAA agreed with this layout and analysis. A stakeholder advisory panel would be held on January 28. There would be no new hold bars on the taxiway, allowing for free flowing traffic instead. The airport was proposing a visual screen such as at Detroit to break to visual line of sight. The black line on the rendering was where the visual screen was on the map. There would be elongated blast pads to be in line with 10 right runways; this was a safety measure coordinated with the FAA. There would be a ground run up enclosure to consolidate maintenance runups and deflect noise and wind upward. Overall themes were to enhance airfield safety, ensure operability, and adhere to existing aircraft design. There would be an FAA adherence and standards list applied to the most demanding aircraft. There would be surface grading to the west. Dirt and fill would be brought in. The Plan acknowledged the need for additional hangar growth. Corporate hangars would be developed. There were also line of sign challenges, so these hangars would not be developed until there control towers were relocated. The northwest and southeast corners would open up for hangar development and a fuel farm after the relocation of the new tower. There would be greater accessibility for vehicle traffic. Premier Jet completed its own Master Plan, which would improve the gate and parking. Taxiway G needed improvements with regard to airfield capacity and occupancy time; Gilles was in conversations with tower staff. The south primary runway was inefficient and there was a proposal to get the aircraft off the runway faster. The Comprehensive Plan was not approved yet. There would be another stakeholder meeting, a Flying Cloud Airport meeting, and Met Council review, completing in late summer of 2025. There would be an environmental clearance process after that, and then the question of funding, public comment and stakeholder engagement. The Plan would continue to be reassessed. Rogers noted the development of the soccer field might elicit passionate feedback, but Gilles replied most feedback was positive. The airport had to show aeronautical need to develop these. He announced a “Discover Flying Cloud” event would be held in March. Ross added there would be four upcoming meetings. The stakeholder meeting would be held on February 5, 2025. The fourth “Discover Flying Cloud” public event FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION January 9, 2025 Page 8 would include opportunities for comment. Staff was seeking approval from the commission and would have a 45-day public comment period. Dorson thanked both Gilles and Ross for their presentation. OLD BUSINESS a. Follow-up meetings with Flight Schools reference noise Dorson stated even before the one that happened earlier this week, ATP had held a meeting which Loken had attended. Loken stated the reaction was positive and some pilots were surprised at the impact. He came away with the impression ATP was willing to consider alternative options and there would be some attempts to adjust to the training landing and takeoff component, and vary the route from a circular repetition. Loken added the school was open to continued conversations. Morhack stated his meeting with InFlight had been very positive. InFlight was 100 percent committed to improving training and community relations and invited the commission members to their annual meeting. Dockry stated he would meet with Thunderbird next. Lewis had met with them regarding the video. b. Follow-up on proposed video for flight instructors Lewis stated the video for pilots in training on noise abatement was in the development queue, but was probably two or three months from completion. The goal was to have it before April 2025, which was the beginning of the 2025 flight training season. VI. NEW BUSINESS a. Annual Workshop Presentation – February 4, 2025 Dorson stated he and Morhack would present at the City Council. Dorson requested Lewis review the draft and suggest the best way to show the noise abatement program based on the MACNOMs data . a. Next noise abatement webinar for pilots – March 1, 2025 Discussion followed on an MSP Tower Tour. Dorson suggested a 4:30 p.m. start time. Lewis stated a five-person limit each tour, and suggested two dates rather than two tours in one day. She added all visitors must bring ID, and must sign up beforehand so the airport had names a week prior. FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION January 9, 2025 Page 9 March 3 and 10 or 17 were suggested, giving a deadline to sign up by February 14. There would be a Google sign-up sheet. Everyone would meet on the north side near highway 62, not the terminal area. Hermann encouraged the student representatives to visit the tower. Dorson stated the Flying Cloud airport tour would be discussed at the April meeting. IX. UPCOMING EVENTS AND TOPICS FOR FUTURE FCAAC MEETINGS Herrmann stated the Denver reliever airports around Denver International Airport were similar to those in this region. She had met with the airport CEO, the chair of the noise advisory commission and another commission member, and found Denver reliever airports had a lot of the same neighborhood noise and flight school issues as here, and were following the same methods as Flying Cloud. They were very interested in the video being produced for Flying Cloud. She encouraged everyone to tour the airports if possible and visit the museum and flight school on the field of Centennial Airport. She added each reliever airport had a restaurant (for example, Perfect Landing) similar to St. Paul Holmen’s Table but very affordable. She commended this as a revenue-generator for the reliever airports and suggested this as a possibility for Minnesota’s reliever airports. X. ADJOURNMENT The next FCAAC meeting will be held on Thursday, April 10, 2025 at 7:00 p.m. in Heritage Room I. MOTION: Rogers moved, seconded by Herrmann to adjourn. Motion carried 7-0. The meeting was adjourned at 8:54 p.m.