HomeMy WebLinkAboutFlying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission - 07/14/2022APPROVED MINUTES
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION
TUESDAY, JULY 14, 2022 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER
8080 MITCHELL RD
COMMISSION MEMBERS: Chair: Dan Dorson
Vice Chair: Andy Kleinfehn
Commissioners:
Bob Barker
Chilkunda Narendranath
Marc Morhack
Michael Lawrence (Business Representative)
Blaine Peterson (Airport Manager)
COMMISSION STAFF: Scott Gerber, EP Fire Chief
Kristin Harley, Recording Secretary
MAC STAFF: Jennifer Lewis
I. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL
Chair Dorson called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. Absent were commission members
Kleinfehn and Barker.
Resident Kurt Laughton and Brad Juffer, Manager of Community Relations for
MACjoined the meeting.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION: Morhack moved, seconded by Lawrence to approve the agenda. Motion
carried 5-0.
I. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
MOTION: Lawrence moved, seconded by Narendranath to approve the minutes of the
April 14, 2022 meeting as amended to correct the spelling of Herrmann’s name and other
small corrections. Motion carried 5-0.
II. PUBLIC COMMENTS
Gerber read an emailed letter he received after receiving a phone call from an Eden
Prairie resident, Lynn Crist of Bishop Court:
“Hello Scott,
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“Below is my public comment for the Flying Cloud Airport Advisory
Commission. Thank you for relaying it to the commission and for taking time the
other day to answer my questions about airplane noise. I really appreciate your
insights and professionalism.
“All the best,
“Lynne Crist
“After a productive phone conversation with Scott Gerber, I am submitting a
written comment to the Flying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission about the
airplane noise in and around my neighborhood in Eden Prairie.
“My husband and I moved to Eden Prairie 36 years ago. We have lived in our
home at 12303 Bishop Court for 31 years. We have never really thought about
Flying Cloud Airport until recently when noise pollution from small aircraft
became a problem. Searching for an explanation -- initially, I had no idea why
loud planes were circling our part of town -- and hoping for a solution, I made
online complaints, phoned the MAC noise hotline, and spoke with MAC's
Jennifer Lewis, all with mixed results. Sometimes the aircraft noise abated,
sometimes it increased. Sometimes our family could sit on the deck or in the
kitchen in peace, sometimes we could not.
“My question is what can be done to end/reduce/regulate this noise?
“I now know about the expansion of flight schools at Flying Cloud Airport and
the uptick in flight training. Given this increase in air traffic, the increase in noise
was foreseeable. I assume someone at Flying Cloud is considering the impact on
Eden Prairie residents. Are there meaningful adjustments that can be made in the
scheduling, duration, location, time of day, etc. for flying lessons? My hope is that
measures will be taken to spare local neighborhoods from long hours of
unhealthy, droning noise. My husband and I love Eden Prairie and do not want the
quality of life (or property values) diminished by increased airplane noise.
“Thank you for your time and any help with this situation. Respectfully,
“Lynne Crist”
Laughton stated he lived west of Flying Cloud Airport and had found Lewis to be very
helpful when he contacted her, and agreed with Crist that he also wanted to see
improvement during the 4:00 to 7:00 a.m. period. Departures caused most of the noise,
and there were 67 aircraft that departed westbound between these early hours in April, 94
in May, and 68 in June so far according to the database. He urged continued action on
outgoing flights as these are much noisier than incoming ones..
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Dorson reminded Laughton that the commission also could not regulate departures, but
other actions could be taken to ameliorate the situation.
Laughton noted within the Noise Abatement Plan amended in January of 2017, nighttime
restrictions were voluntary and allowed if pre-approved by the airport manager or a
public emergency. Dorson replied he looked at flight training, and none of these flights
were training flights. Laughton agreed they were not, but probably business flights.
Dorson added he and Lewis had a safety meeting on August 6 to discuss noise abatement
during the voluntary night flight hours. He agreed there was an uptick in business
operations. Lewis noted that any pilot who did not meet the criteria Laughton read in the
Noise Abatement Plan received a letter, followed up with a conversation. Lawrence
observed aging aircraft had louder engines.
III. FOCUS TOPIC FOR THE MEETING
a. Airport appearance at Flying Cloud Airport Follow-Up
Dorson displayed the list of observations and Peterson gave updates for
each.
1. Public viewing area: Peterson stated the issues were power, which
was costly, but perhaps solar batteries could be used with an RFI to
turn them on and off, and the Eagle Scout leader had not yet
returned his calls. Morhack suggested perhaps no radio was
needed, but a sign giving the website and the frequency. Peterson
agreed; a QR code could be used.
2. Parking outside of Gate G: Peterson stated this was supposed to
have been done, but now it was slated for August 25-28 and would
be completed by September.
3. FlyWise building: Peterson he would give more details on this later
in his operations presentation.
4. View of hangars along Pioneer Trail: Peterson stated pruning was
done and would be continued, but adding more trees could
interfere with snow overflow. Fence poles were not designed to
withstand wind so fence screening would involve new poles.
5. Thunderbird Aviation: Peterson stated he would have another
conversation with Corey Grape, the station manager.
6. Elliott Aviation: Peterson stated the exterior walls were cleaned up,
and additional signage would be put in but there had been supply
chain issues.
7. AV8 Aviation: Peterson stated improvements would continue on
both sides, but they were not completed. This was also due to a
supply chain issue, but new tin siding would be installed in
August.
8. Blue airport sign: Peterson stated Pioneer and Flying Cloud Drive
would be properly lit at night. He hoped for a response on a new
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sign the next day which would hopefully be installed early next
year. Dorson noted he drove by a saw the sign lit at night.
9. Executive Aviation building: Peterson stated the sign had been
improved.
10. Hangar 5: Peterson stated the windows had been cleaned but the
interior needed more work. The lease would be up next year,
which would be a chance to have a conversation. Bill Hauptmann
had completed a repainting job of his hangar.
Dorson thanked Peterson for his updates.
VI. STANDING DISCUSSION ITEMS
a. NOISE REPORT – MAC
Lewis first presented two examples of flight paths, the first overlaid on a map of
the neighborhood of Lynn Crist, showing the frequent take-offs and landings of
training flights. The second flight paths example showed the flights over Kurt
Laughton’s house the night before (eight hours duration).
Dorson suggested a letter to all of the flight schools strongly encouraging training
operations elsewhere. Peterson agreed. Lawrence stated solo flights (after initial
training) were confined to home airports, which he thought would be the
explanation for the number of flights over this residential area. Peterson noted this
was asking the school to change its procedures. Dorson agreed the commission
could not change where the planes fly but this issue was about awareness, and
asked to work with Peterson on a letter. Peterson suggested a letter to every
school. Flying Cloud is the third busiest airport in the Tri-State region.
Morhack asked if it was possible to fly in the opposite direction. Dorson replied
the second runway was an obstacle to that. Also, noise complaints arose when the
airport closed the north runway. Discussion followed on changing the flight
direction. Peterson stated most training was done on the north runway, and there
would be significant environment changes if it was switched to the south runway.
Dorson agreed the number of training flights had increased. He showed the
number and directions of arrivals and departures compared to Laughton’s house,
with many of the flights north of his house. The first example showed how
training had increased. The second example showed flights twice as high, but
perhaps noisier with engines at full throttle. The jet traffic was more set in its
routes. Laughton was 1.3 miles off the departure end, and it did make him
contend with some noise.
Lawrence noted there was training flight traffic on the south runway at that time,
and it had to make a hard left to due to MSP Airport. There were a lot of moving
parts to this issue. Lawrence added the Flying Cloud Airport did try to split
training between the north and south runways. Lewis added the flight towers
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closed at 10:00 p.m. and the flights turning south were at the request of MAC
when the south runway was used. Gerber asked if the planes would be less noisy
if they went straight. Lewis replied it depended if the plane was on an inside or
outside turn; an inside turn was a longer event; an outside turn was shorter.
Because of the way noise propagates 45 degrees of the tail, a plane flying straight
would be heard for quite a while.
Dorson proposed discussing business travel and business jets before the regular
noise report presentation. He asked Lewis if business travel had increased the
noise complaints. Lewis replied they had, but it impossible to make a strict
apples-to-apples comparison with the previous year due to the data processing
change (tower counts versus MACNOMs). Jet aircraft produced the second-
highest number of complaints after piston-engine aircraft. There were 3,092 jet
operations at Flying Cloud Airport in the second quarter of 2022, up from 2,448
in the first quarter. Dorson noted more operations this year than last year and the
year before. Lewis agreed, and added the trend was to have a peak in June, July
and August, then to fall off in September.
Juffer stated the first quarter at MAC was comparable year to year, but in the
second quarter showed lower numbers compared to last year due to weather. The
pattern was trending down in operations year by year
Dorson asked Lewis to address nighttime operations by jets. Lewis replied when
she received the hour-by-hour by operation there was an increase in “shoulder
hours” (between 10:00 p.m. to midnight and 5:00 a.m. to 7:00 a.m.) more than
nighttime hours. There was a drop in the hours between 1:00 and 3:00 a.m. There
was an increase in piston aircraft too; she could not say if those were business
flights. Gerber displayed the heat map and Dorson pointed out the various types
of aircraft traffic it indicated.
Lewis stated that business carriers who have received a letter received details and
techniques in order to fly quietly when they could not avoid nighttime hours, such
as flying as close to 7:00 a.m. or to 10:00 p.m. as possible, reducing power
settings for departure, flying straight in, staying higher longer, and making that
south turn.
Lewis presented the noise report. There was a reduction in noise complaints by
almost half as many as last year, and slightly fewer households filed complaints.
In second quarter of 2022, 53 households filed 2,811 complaints, down from 57
households filing 5,841 complaints in the second quarter of 2021. However, more
households were reporting nighttime complaints.
Morhack stated it would be helpful to know if this was due to flight schools.
Having followed the complaint process he did receive the automatic validation
email, but wished to have more data, or at least an informational link in the email.
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He added it would also be helpful to know how many letters were sent. Dorson
agreed, and suggested tailoring specific data for the operation’s purpose.
Laughton urged more transparency around what happens when a complaint is
submitted. He feared perhaps households became worn down and eventually gave
up after repeated complaints without changes.
b. ORDINANCE 97 MONITORING – MAC
Peterson stated there were four total with one repeat: an aircraft returned for
maintenance. This was more than second quarter of last year (which had been
zero).
c. AIRPORT INCIDENTS AND OPERATIONAL UPDATES – MAC
Peterson stated there was one incident in which aircraft left the runway and struck
a runway light which tore the center fuselage propeller. This was a solo flight.
There were no injuries.
Operational updates: FlyWise had a soft opening today with the Eden Prairie
Mayor Ron Case cutting the ribbon. The building had been gutted and rebuilt.
He suggested a walkthrough sometime this year. There would be a FAA Part145
repair station training program (Airframe &Power Plant mechanic school).
FlyWise would hold a grand opening in the fall.
Upcoming construction: the Taxiway Hotel was slated for October 2022.
d. LONG TERM COMPREHENSIVE PLAN UPDATE – MAC
Peterson stated the open house for the community was held on June 6. It was very
well attended with around 300 surrounding residents attending. It ran from 4:30 –
6:00 p.m. with presentations and a Q&A. There were many great questions. This
was the first of four events. The next would be held in October, location TBD.
Dorson asked if there were questions about changes.
Peterson replied there were no huge changes. The presentation had focused on
processes, and the rest of the discussion focused on design criteria and facilities,
the actions of other tenants, and future forecasts.
VII. OLD BUSINESS
a. Airport Tour for Commissioners
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Peterson described the tour. There was no tour of the tower, but a small group
might have that opportunity. Dorson suggested another airport tour around the
same time of year the following spring with the student representatives.
VIII. NEW BUSINESS
IX. UPCOMING EVENTS AND TOPICS FOR FUTURE FCAAC MEETINGS
• The Air Expo will be held July 23 and 24, 2022. Updates on Wings of the
North webpage.
• Flying Cloud Airport Annual Barbeque will be held August 10, 2022, time
TBD.
• The Girls in Aviation Day will be held September 24, 2022 at the Jet
Links Hangar.
X. ADJOURNMENT
The next FCAAC meeting will be held on Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 7:00 p.m. in
Heritage Room I.
MOTION: Morhack moved, Second by Lawrence to adjourn. Motion carried 5-0. The
meeting was adjourned at 8:04 p.m.